[Interview] Chen Tay: How To Maximise Mindset, Market Your Message, and Mastermind Your Way To The Top

Podcast – West Loh on Leverage, Automation and Outsourcing Strategies, 100% Free!

Strategic Advisor to Speakers, Coaches and Seminar Promoters, Entrepreneur

Having Chen for an hour would normally cost me my right leg…but he agreed to giving this interview in order to help entrepreneurs… just like you. He shed gem after gem about mindset, positioning, personal branding and the biggest mistakes he sees entrepreneurs make.

In this interview you will discover:

– How Chen started by migrating from the war in Cambodia to getting established and successful in the seminar arena

– How to shift your mindset around money and personal branding

– How to strategise and dominate your niche and become ‘irreplaceable’ so you get head hunted by the best

– How to find and build long term, lasting relationships

– Why you need to join a complimentary mastermind and how to get the most out of it

– How to shift the way you spend your time to eliminate tasks that aren’t serving your greater good and value

http://chentay.com/

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[mp3 – 64mb – 69min]

Full Transcript

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West Interviews Chen Tay

Speakers:
West: West Loh
Chen: Chen Tay

West: Okay, folks! Welcome to the call this morning. I’m here with Chen Tay now. Literally, I’ve been trying to get an interview with Chen for the last twelve months. And it’s been very tough to get him because he’s an amazing guy but he does a lot of travel, does a lot of mentoring and coaching. I’d like to call him—kind of like—a secret mentor because he’s really behind the success of a lot of the speakers and gurus you see out there in today’s world. But you probably never heard of the guy because he doesn’t like to actually publicize who he is and what he does. So we’re very lucky to have him today.

Welcome to the call, Chen!

Chen: Thanks for having me, West. I look forward to sharing some good stuff with you.

West: Absolutely. Why don’t you give us your version of what you do and how you add value to people’s lives?

Chen: Okay, West. Well firstly, I’ll just go tell you a little bit about myself and how I got into this game and do what I do because, I think, the story to someone is actually more interesting than the actual facts. Because sometimes, you know, when I’m in a seminar or when I’m learning from someone, I find their story very intriguing. And also, sometimes it just tips something off in your brain and it gives you the inspiration and motivation to pursue your dreams.

So for me, I was born relatively young. I was born actually in the killing fields of Cambodia in the late ‘70s, early ‘80s. And what I learned from that experience alone that in Australia we’re very lucky. We don’t have too many major disasters. And if I can do this, I know that a lot of people can do it too. Because the reality is, is that your situation doesn’t determine who you are. It actually accumulates and gives you the experience to go where you need to be.

So when I came to Australia, I went through the school system, didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I concluded about the time I got to Grade Six that if I could just get a factory job and then 500 bucks a week, like that, I would have made it. I would have been very happy.

West: So…very humble beginnings.

Chen: Very, very humble beginnings. Now one of the things that really hit home with me as I got older was that, you know, I started to develop interests and crushes and stuff like that. And one of the things was, you know, having a drug-free lifestyle. So that’s why I never drank or smoke. And I found in Korea that really suited me; and that was chiropractic.

So after about six weeks of work experience as a dentist, I realized that I was actually living Mommy’s dream and not mine. So I stopped there and I went and did work experience with—

West: So you realized that after six weeks? That’s impressive.

Chen: I made so many dental trays and seen so many dental procedures now that I knew pretty conclusively that I didn’t want to be a dentist. But the thing is that—as you know—opportunity: as one door closes, another door opens.

West: Yes. So chiropractics.

Chen: So I went to Chiropractics. And I was one of the very fortunate people that actually got into chiropractic straight out of school because the year that we entered chiropractic college, they were taking a lot more mature-aged students because it was determined that chiropractic was one of those courses that where actually life skill was more important than academic skill.

So being one of the few that got in, I was pretty happy with that. But the thing is that, after 2nd year, I wanted to get out. The reason why is that in the 1st year, they teach you all this good philosophy, all this good stuff; but in the 2nd year they pretty much tell you all the medical stuff which is not congruent or aligned with all the stuff that we learnt in the first year. So I was fortunate enough to—at that time—to have someone who looked up to me and supported and actually got me through the course because without that person, I can tell you now, I wouldn’t be here. And one of the things that I learned in that whole process was that—I went and started interviewing chiropractors. I probably interviewed about a hundred and twenty chiropractors over the next twelve to eighteen months—and what I learned was that a lot of these chiropractors were very successful but they were also, a high majority of them, were living week by week. Some of them were actually just working to pay their bills. I didn’t understand how you can be twenty, thirty years in practice and still be living week by week. So I started thinking differently.

And when I got through this process, West, I found that a lot of people in that situation, where life just gets ahead of you. And I started going to seminars. And one of the things that I learned at seminars was that, geez, I was always one of the youngest people there. I mean, I’ve invested a lot in seminars and it was only early in one of the seminars that I realized that the money was in the marketing and building the business. And that’s when I started changing my whole mindset.

And I think mindset is a very important aspect of all this because I’ve watched my journey from when I left school and to who I am now, and I can honestly say to you that the mindset journey for me has been the most transformational and pivotal change that I’ve made that has actually helped me get ahead in life. I know a lot of people invest a lot in strategies and programs and…

West: And how-to’s, yeah.

Chen: Yeah. But the reality is, that it’s the real estate between your ears, that’s the one that gives you the most infinite returns. So I’ve always been a student. I’ve just been one of those people that really got the seminar game in terms of it was about: not only implementation but it was about networking and finding a lot of people to mastermind and be mentored by.

And in the meantime, while I graduated with that chiropractic side, I also had done a property course and was basically able to secure about $1.1 million of property as well. So I learned very quickly the power of implementation. But then, what I learned later on is the importance of having a strategy in place and being clear on what you want. Because one of the things that I got clear on is that, look, I went into this game thinking like I was just a chiropractor. But then as I developed and evolved in the game, I realized that, hang on, my business and marketing skills were being acknowledged by a lot more people…

West: It’s applicable. Yeah, it’s applicable in so many other areas.

Chen: Yeah. So that’s why, when people come to me and they don’t know what they want to do, I often tell them, “Look, what are you good at? What are your skills? What are your passions?” Because if you align your business with your skill or your passion, something you enjoy doing everyday, I honestly believe you actually got it right. I mean, at this point in time I do three hours of chiropractic a week, which a lot of people find it hard to believe. But I also do consulting with other clients. And then most of the time I’m with my two young boys.

So you can really engineer the life you want as long as you get clear on what it is that you want. And if you don’t know what you want, start with something. Start with a skill, go look in the marketplace and look at the people that are successful. And what I do is I write their traits down or what they do and I try to work out, okay, well, how do I follow that trait? For example, when I was young I had a really big fear of rejection. I was so shy, I felt like I was always getting rejected.

So I started thinking opposites, you know, you go from one extreme to the other. So I thought, ‘where can I get totally rejected all the time?’ So I took up door-to-door sales. And it was an interesting experience, mate. I don’t know if you’ve ever done door-to-door sales but…

West: Mate, I don’t have the guts to do that.

Chen: Well, door-to-door sales and telemarketing, I think, are the two jobs that mold your character, let’s just say that. I remember when they dropped us off in a suburb in Melbourne. And it took me about half an hour to build up the courage to knock on my first door. And it was funny because I was starting to judging houses and thinking like, okay, you know, trying to work out whether these people will be able to afford the telephone system that I was at that time selling, you know. And it was embarrassing because it took me half an hour to knock on the first door. But I can honestly say to you, West, after about the tenth rejection…I was over it. I don’t mind about rejection stuff anymore.

One of the things is that when you confront your fears and your challenges, I mean, that’s where the massive growth comes along. I remember one of my earliest mentors. I would ask him, I said, “Look, I’m new to this. I’m going to try a lot of things. If I’m out of line, pull me up,” you know. And it’s actually great to have someone in your life that pulls you up out of your bad behavior, your bad habits or just when you behave poorly.

West: I mean that’s one of the things I really notice about my interactions with you, Chen—not only with yourself and your mentors, but also with the people you speak to—you’re very real and you don’t sugarcoat things. And I think that a lot of the people listening to this call—they would be your clients—but also, new people listening could really appreciate that.

Chen: Well, West, you know what I concluded, you know. Life is short. And you’re right…too many people are just getting by; they’re just surviving. And having been in survival mode during my student years, I mean, understandably I’ve seen a lot. When I was a student on Austudy—I think they call it Youth Allowance these days. I mean, I was earning a hundred and forty (140) a fortnight. And I thought that was a lot of money, you know. And my only goal at that time was if I can make 250 a week, I’ll be safe. I mean, just 250 a week. Then when I got there, I said, “Oh, if only I can make 500 a week,” you know. 500 a week—that’s the number. And then when I got there, it was like a thousand dollars (1,000). I thought, ‘Geez, who would spend more than a thousand dollars a week?’ And it’s interesting to see the mindset journey with that. It made me realize that, hang on, it actually didn’t matter how much money I made. It’s actually what I did with it and how much I invested in myself, my education, but also how much I put away in savings. I mean,DeMartini has a great line “you increase your quality of life when you increase your amount in savings.” And I love it. Because that’s what happened in this whole global financial crisis: was that a lot of people led the good life, they sit and didn’t save, and then when the rainy day came along they found, hang on, geez, there’s not enough to live. And this is where it causes a lot of problems if you don’t have some structure behind finances.

That’s why I’ve always made to study personally and professionally about money. But early on I’ve decided that I wanted to learn and study money because these chiropractors were working all day long and they still have no money. So I made it a quest to learn about money.

And a book that actually started me off was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. When I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, it really gave me an insight into the world of money because prior to that, I had no clue about money. And what I realized is that Rich Dad wasn’t actually just one person, but that Rich dad was actually a series of mentors that Kiyosaki had. So I decided to build my Rich Dad family. And I added mentors that helped me in all areas of my life: like I had Rich Dads in business, in investing, in property, in shares, on the internet. So when you build this panel of experts or mentors, what you can do is access all their accumulated knowledge. And one of the things that one of my earliest mentors told me was if you just spend half an hour with someone who’s done it and they share their experience, by the time your half an hour comes up, they want to keep going. And by the time you get to an hour you’ve actually accumulated so much of the information at that time and allows you to accelerate to where you want to go.

West: Absolutely.

Chen: I’ve been one of those people in the seminar game that actually have applied what I learned and got results and have just kept doing it, to the point where one of my mentors asked me to come work for him. And we ended up putting some of the biggest events in Australia and also probably one of the most successful business coaching mastermind programs as well. And that basically set me up on this journey.

So these days, what I do is I advise speakers, coaches and seminar promoters and basically work behind the scenes. Because what I learned is that in this game, you have a choice—and I made a decision a long time ago—that you’re either the Porsche body or you’re the Porsche engine. And when I decided that I don’t want to be the shining star on stage with names on lights. I want to be that engine that drives that Porsche because I found that if I had…

West: Wow. Great analogy.

Chen: Well, if I had the skills and I could build the team and drive the Porsche, it didn’t matter who the star was. I could just plug in that system to anyone. And what I found is that if you build the engine, you build the team and you build the driver…you know what? You really get to know where your strengths are.

West: Absolutely.

Chen: Or you can actually leverage and get the results faster. And that’s why, you know, you noticed in me, West, I try very hard to be authentic all the time because in this game where there’s a lot of ego—and actually, one of the quotes that I live by, which was given by one of my earliest mentors, was that: “The truth is the result; all else is ego”—because I’ve learned that in this game, ego is a two-edged sword. You know, you can rise on it or you’ll fall on it. That’s why I chose to be an unreasonable friend to a lot of speakers and coaches and seminar promoters.

West: Absolutely. I think they really, really appreciate it and it’s one of the very unique things… we were talking, just chatting on the phone the other day and we both highly agreed—and many people agree—that you are irreplaceable in that there is actually no one who does what you do. It’s a very, very unique position. And I don’t know if there’s a name for what you do but…

Chen: Well, what happened, West, was that…see, I had lunch with a lady that ran a very successful seminar company and pretty much offered a position to run one of the biggest seminar companies in Australia. Now one of the things she said to me that really stuck was, “You know, Chen, we’ve looked at the marketplace and there’s no one like you.” Now, in my head I’m thinking, of course there’s not, because ten years ago I looked at the marketplace and I worked out which space I wanted to dominate. And basically, it was a culmination of three mentors. And I took the traits of these three mentors and trying to combine them. And at the age of thirty now, I’m pretty much getting very, very close to the traits of these three mentors to the point where most seminar promoters in Australia and also some really well-known speakers overseas now know me or know of me. I mean, at least when I went I went to America, some of the big-name speakers would actually come up and approach me by first name. I mean, one of the greatest things in this game is the fact that it’s all about relationships.

West: Yes, because in the past you would have to approach them, right? No one would have any idea who you were.

Chen: Mate, in the past, they wouldn’t even take your call and won’t answer your emails. You’re no one. But the thing is, what really happened, what really changed this game is I’ve learned that the power of relationships if you really get focused on building strong relationships. And you know, it’s so easy to chase the money, West. I mean, when you’re in survival mode, all you care about is the money. But when you build these long-term relationships, what you’ll find is that people will do things for you and not ask you for money. They reward you for your commitment, your energy.

Like when I went to work on my first seminar company, I filed the whole employment process. So for me, I don’t like taking ‘no’ as an answer because one of my philosophies is just to fail forweard fast because a lot of people that start out, they wait for their ducks to line up, they want to know the best CRM program, the best autoresponder, the best business plan, the best sales letter, the best offer—they’ve got everything the best. But you know, the reality is, is just get started.

And for me, when I introduced this one rule in my life, my life changed. And that rule was: any time I fail is when I give up. And you know what, West? It’s been over ten years now and I’ve never given up. Now there have been a few times that I’ve been tempted to give up but I’ve never given up. So in my world, it’s really hard to fail, West.

And when you talk about the seminar industry, you have to realize that success isn’t overnight. There are a lot of people that come into the game and then like over night, stop. But if you do the research and you dig, I mean, you know, just remember, for two years I was entrusted with over half a million dollars to research the seminar industry and to study it and to find speakers and promoters and to really find background information on a lot of people in the game. And what I discovered is that reality is that a lot of them are not as well off as you think. A lot of them are living week by week. But the thing is they just get paid bigger incomes and because they’ve learned how to leverage themselves. But you know some of the best speakers—I can tell you now—have some of the most poorest businesses. Like I know one speaker that is lucky to get probably ten cents in a dollar of everything they earn because they never spent the time to run the business side.

And I can tell you now, when you’re a star or if you want to be a star, it doesn’t matter who you are, any star—if they’re getting 50-50—over time, they’ll get jaded. They get very, very jaded because at the end of the day, they did all the work and they’re not getting the rewards. And you know what that’s like: when you’re doing a lot of work and you don’t get the rewards. That’s why I often talk to my clients about the three to seven year cycles. Most of us stick with something for three to seven years and we give up. And it’s like when people come into the seminar game, they get excited, they go to their first event. Then they upgrade to a cause. Then they chase these moneymaking opportunities. And then they get burned or they lose money or it doesn’t work for them because they were trying to integrate a moneymaking system for someone else and they were trying to copy it. Because the reality is, is that the person that created the system created it for them. And one of the things that I learned is that the key is to find out which system or which vehicle is most aligned with your values and beliefs.

West: And that’s one area that you really specialize in, getting to—what I’d like to call—the ‘core’ of a person’s desires and skills and then helping them to fast track their way to a result.

Chen: Well… the thing is, West, when we get to the core of someone—actually, it’s interesting—when you really get to the core of someone and you get all the delusions and their illusions away, they actually achieve things a lot faster. Like, I mean, we have a friend called Bret Thomson and…

West: Yes. Great guy.

Chen: Bret has a great story.

West: Actually, I’ll be able to include…I interviewed Bret recently and I’ll include that as a bonus to this call.

Chen: But Bret is someone I really respect and admire because he’s a solid guy that just shuts up and does it. Now I remember in 2007, I met Bret and he basically stayed on the floor of our hotel room we had a big event on. And he basically struggled to even get there. And within a year of implementing and just putting it out there, he ended up with a seven-figure copywriting job with probably one of Australia’s best marketers.

West: That’s a pretty awesome story.

Chen: And so one of the things that I learned from that is that Bret just applied himself. I mean, one of the times, you know, he had to get to Perth for a meeting and I said to Bret, “You’ve got to be there. If you have to, look, I’ll pay for a one-way fare for you to get there.” Because the thing is, at the end of the day, the first step of success, West—I think—having gone through the process is I actually found that the most successful people, someone believed in them more than they believed in themselves. That’s why you always see people that are couples, you know, whether the wife will believe and support them so much—the husband or the guy so much—because the self-doubt and the self-sabotage gets you, you know, because we all have value issues. I mean, that’s probably the biggest obstacle in our way starting out in business: is that we don’t value ourselves. We ask questions like, “Why me?” “Why people pay me all this money?” I mean, I get that. My mom still, to this day, doesn’t understand why people pay a lot of money to spend a day with me and then just talk. It doesn’t make sense to her, you know, because what I can do in a day, that’s about two months earning for her.

And also, when you’re starting out, there’s always a lack of money. But the great thing is education’s free, mate. And people forget that. When I was growing up—and I hope they’re still around, but—there’s a thing called a library. And you know what? It’s free to join. And it’s an amazing concept. You can go there and you can actually borrow books. And some of these books can really change your life. And I spent a lot of my time in the library because I wanted to find out that if the best minds are in here, what are their commonalities? What have they done? I don’t just read or study business marketing, you know. I try and read a wide variety of material because the inputs that you put in, in fact give you the raw data to synthesizing your ideas.

West: And the thing with you is if there’s an event that is very specific and will help you and help you help people, you go to it wherever in the world it is.

Chen: Perfect example, West. I’ve gone to America pretty much three or four times a year the last few years. I mean, I remember one event, I flew over to Perth for the day and that night flew back into Brisbane. I think I was on the ground for like less than twelve hours.

But the thing is, West, a lot of people think, “Yeah, that’s all good. That’s all good because you’ve got the money.” But you know what, West? I was doing that when I had no money. I mean, I remember having to eat at home more times—actually, when I say home, I had to eat at my parents’ place—because I spent three months’ wages on the next seminar, all three months study allowance on the next seminar. I was always voraciously getting books, buying books. Because I understood that in investing in yourself, yes, the money leaves your hand but it never leaves your life. And what I find is that the whole concept is that a lot of people are too afraid to give money away, that they’re too afraid to invest because your hierarchy or base will determine where you spend your money. But for me, it’s books and education. I’ve always been ingrained that way. That’s why if you dropped me at a sopping center and you lose me, I can tell you where you’ll find me: in a bookshop.

Because the thing is, once you start getting some results—‘coz I think that, you know, when you’re starting out it’s hard to get the confidence—but when you get little results and you have the support of someone significant, you start to attract opportunities and things. That’s why I love the seminar game, you know. Like I think people need to realize there are too many people complaining about the seminar game, about the pitch fest environment, about what’s going on, but I mean…any of those people that talk to me, I would show them the other game behind the game, I call it. And the game behind the game is that the seminar environment is a great way to network and build new top contacts. But also, not so much to get new content but get new context on what’s possible, okay? Because we write so many notes down and we take so many notes but most of us never get back to it. These days I never write any notes. I like taking big ideas because for me, I know that these big ideas—sometimes it’s just one idea or a twist on a different idea—and you know, it can seriously add a lot of money to your bank account.

The number of clients I’ve had this year that have taken their businesses from scratch and gone to six figures, I think it’s been nearly about eighty percent. And one of the reasons why I think that is, is that there are models and marketing that are established out there that are working. You don’t need to reinvent it. You know, when I do a deal with someone, I’m always thinking, “Okay, where’s the revenue model? And where’s the marketing?” And the last few years spending over half a million dollars of research, I found that there’s like a 5-step process, West, that… Actually, why don’t we do that now?

West: Okay. Why don’t you share that with us real quick? I’m just writing down…I’m taking notes here, by the way, folks. There are some good lessons out to learn. But take us with the five steps, Chen.

Chen: Okay. So I’m going to give you the five steps then I’ll talk a little bit more about it, okay?

So the first step is mindset.
The second step is marketing.
The third step is mastermind.
The fourth step is mainstream.
And the fifth step is a maven.

So let me explain that in a little bit more detail for you. Now obviously the first one, mindset: nothing changes unless you change your mindset. Most people are stuck because they’re trying to be this new person but they’ve got the old priority programming. It’s like all these people that want all the features and all the benefits of Windows 7, but they’re still running Windows 95 or they’re running DOS. I don’t know if you remember DOS, West. I don’t know if you even remember DOS.

West: I do remember.

Chen: But yes, so they’re trying to…

West: CD/games was the…

Chen: Yeah, that’s the one. That’s the one. So you know, they’ve got their mind set. So what I’ve learned is that you always, always train and behave at the level you want to be.

Now let’s take a moment here and think about this. I’m not telling you to go buy a boat. I’m not telling you to buy a new car. But you know what? You can experience it. Go test drive a BMW or a Merc. It costs nothing. Wear a nice suit. Wear a nice outfit. Go test drive it.

West: Absolutely. You’ve told me to do that as well and I’ve done it. And it’s powerful.

Chen: It’s powerful. It’s the experience. Something just happens, mate. The shift in your head—it’s subconscious, I believe—but just something that triggers other opportunities and other people to come into your life.

Now the other thing I used to do when I was a student was to actually stay in the lobby of 5-star hotels and pretend like I’m waiting for a meeting. And I used to just sit there and I used to watch all these wealth roll by, all these successful businessmen.

West: That’s really cool.

Chen: Because if you think about it, West, some people in this hotel are paying a thousand to two and a half thousand dollars ($1000-$2500) a night.

West: It’s very true.

Chen: And you know, the funniest thing is—and this will give you an idea of my mindset and where it was—the thing I love about sitting at these hotels was actually using the toilet. It was actually nice to go use a nice toilet as opposed to being trapped at Maccas all the time, you know. I mean, you know what it’s like, you know? You’ve got to hold the door because the lock’s broken on it. And it’s very uncomfortable, mate.

Now the next step is marketing. And now, early on I thought marketing was everything. But as I’ve learned in the process, marketing is a very important element of the business. And you have to treat is as such. It’s a fundamental. You know, nothing happens until the sale’s made. And one of the things that I’ve learned is that the marketing system and your marketing message will determine the top people that come into your business. And that’s why it’s so important to get your message right, you know. Who are you going for out there? Because you know, research has shown us that the more scattered, the more broad you are, you’re going to suffer in 2010 and 2011 in moving forward. Because now—I think Chris Anderson wrote The Long Tail—the people that are finding niches within a niche are doing so much more better than—

West: People trying to cast the wide net.

Chen: That’s right. Yeah. The people that are focusing on niches and niches within niches are doing really well. Like, look at Apple. Despite Windows controlling over probably ninety percent of the market, Apple’s created a great niche. And now they’ve gone into niches within the niche. I mean, now they’ve got—within the whole Apple range—they’ve got iPods, they’ve got…

West: Absolutely. iPhones, laptops…

Chen: The next shift will probably bring a tablet Mac as well. So they’re always looking to find different segments of the market. Now one of the things I love about Apple is that they’re always focused on quality because that’s the brand. They want to just make great products. And that’s why Apple never touched the net PC. Now I don’t know if you’ve ever got one of those netbook PCs—I mean I’ve bought one—and they’re pretty much useless. So I ended up having to give mine away. I got caught in the buzz. I got caught on the hype and I got one. And, you know, that’s one of the things I’ve learned, is that one of the things in marketing is building your brand. Because what happens when you build a great brand? People trust you. Like people know that when they come to Chen, they get it as it is. They don’t get it half; they get the truth. And sometimes, the truth hurts.

West: And sometimes it’s scary too.

Chen: It’s very confronting. The truth is very confronting. You’ve probably experienced it a few times, you know. But sometimes, I think, if you don’t take people to the other extreme, they’ll never, ever see the greatness of what potential…

West: Yes. And you were telling me before that when you push people to a certain level, you’re like—we were saying before—you push hot buttons. It actually shocks people into a faster result. And they may not like it at the time, but when they look back, you know, it’s the kick up the butt they really needed.

Chen: What I call, West, I call that process: ‘you plant seeds and you watch behavior.’ So if you plant the seedlings, then you watch the behavior. If it changes, you teach them more. If they don’t change, you stop the lessons there. Because there’s nothing worse than trying to help someone that doesn’t want to be helped or doesn’t think that there’s anything wrong.

West: Or he’s wasting your time.

Chen: Or he’s wasting your time, that’s right. So for me, marketing is about trying out that message. It’s like the matrix that Dan Kennedy uses, you know. It’s the message. And then it’s from the market and using the right media.

Now media is so fragmented at the moment that you actually need to just keep two or three medias to start off with and just focus on those. We can always test and measure later on. But the problem is, is that when you try and do every media, it’s impossible to implement and monitor.

West: Yes. Yes, it is. There are always unlimited things you can do.

Chen: That’s right. And whenever you’re looking at the marketplace, just think about who is your ideal customer. That’s the thing that I spend a lot of time on these days with every new business I look into and every new venture we start. We look at, okay, who’s the ideal customer? For example, we’re studying a new business called optimization, which is taking hard-cover books and digitizing them for the iPhone app—turning books into apps.

West: That’s cool.

Chen: And basically, we rebranded the digital publishing platform. Now…it’s not new. All we did was resource people who used to do a VHS tapes to DVD, you know. And now they’re digitizing DVDs onto the hard disk. It’s the same thing. So it’s the same concept but we used it for the Apple iPhones. We know that Apple iPhone are only going to increase in numbers. They’re amazing tools. And there’s amazing opportunities to actually expand that network, because it is a media.

West: Wow. And I have to point out here also that these may seem like really basic questions, but I’m sure when you talk to your clients, Chen, a lot of them have overlooked it.

Chen: Mate, everyone’s trying to make that hundred thousand or million dollar day. And the reality is if you just make a couple of thousand but made it consistently and regularly…

West: You’ll get there.

Chen: You’ll not only get there but you actually keep your family, keep your faith and you’ll have a lot of fun in the process.

West: Yeah, exactly. We were talking about relationships before the call and that’s a whole other call that I think you talk about that’s um…

Chen: Well, put it this way…relationships is everything. Like one of the questions I ask my clients, West, is when you’re successful, who are you going to celebrate with? And most of them will say no one. Because, see, in their pursuit of financial freedom or success or whatever they’re chasing, they realize that, hang on, they actually haven’t got anyone in their life they can share this with. Now I’m sure family—like immediate family like mom and dad, husband or spouse—is great. But you know what? That’s not what it’s about. It’s about building a network and having your support team support you in each stage of the process. Because you know, like one of the things that when you play this game you realize that, you know, marketing can get you out there but the thing is, if you haven’t got the goods, more and more people will just know how bad you are, you know? Like, I mean…

West: That’s a great point. You don’t have the infrastructure to fulfill them.

Chen: No, you don’t. I mean, that’s one of the biggest problems at the moment with these internet marketers. They had one shot at success and now they’re teaching every one their system and they’re a one-man show so they go to all these seminars and they tell you what they’re going to give you, but when it comes to delivering them…not many of them are honoring it. And that’s one of the hardest things—is that we’re in this internet culture. I mean, the internet marketing industry feels a lot like the network marketing, MLM industry all those years ago. You know, you get all these people that come in in the gold rush, but the pros hang around. And that’s what I’ve discovered in this game: is that the pros will hang around. I mean, it’s easy for anyone these days to start a Clickbank check or Google check, you know. And a lot of people I talk to don’t trust a lot of these things anymore because they’ve been let down so much, people paying like thousands and thousands of dollars for a website that is literally free to set-up.

So in every industry, West, there’s always going to be sharks. There’s always going to be shark bait. But the key is to actually find the right people, the right mentors, the right resources or the right coaches that can actually help guide you along this path. I mean, for a lot of my clients, they would tell you, West, I actually—in some cases—saved them lot more money than I actually make them. But because of what I say, then they realize it’s not just the time and money but it’s also the energy that you lose to going through a great deal.

West: Yeah. Yeah. And the emotion and all that sort of stuff.

Chen: Yeah. So once you get the marketing sorted out, the third step is masterminding it. And that’s when you go to events. That’s when you start networking. That’s when you start building some relationship equity. Okay, now I learned very quickly that at seminars that the real content, the real value wasn’t at the front of the room. It was actually at the back of the room during breaks. And I’ve met so many of my best friends, and actually, also clients in the back of the room. And one of the things that made it very clear to me is that you’ve got to mastermind.

I think Napoleon Hill came up with the concept of masterminding. And the reason why masterminding works so well is that we generally want to help others. And we all have information and knowledge. And we’re all going on this sort of journey the same way but we’re just taking different paths. And masterminding allows us to walk on a common path. And what that means is that you know what? When you get like-minded people together and progressive people together… magic happens. I’ve seen it so many times.

I remember one of the first mastermind think tank groups we set up. I mean, just within the first half hour all the information was unbelievable. And I don’t think it’s ever been taught because at the end of the day, you know, the caliber of the people determine the environment. And it’s actually the environment that builds the people, not the personalities. Because one of the biggest problems in a mastermind environment is that a personality or an ego can get in the way and because people think they’re bigger than they really are. And that’s one of the things that masterminding—you know—you’ve got to put that ego aside and go there…it’s also actually networking: go there as a member and contribute.

West: Definitely. And I think one of the other things that you do, Chen, other than being a great masterminder and networker is you connect people. You see synergies in other people and in organizations that people own that they potentially don’t see themselves.

Chen: And that’s the beauty of having someone like outside to look at your situation. I call it ‘fresh eyes.’ I’ve heard this concept before, Dan Kennedy, when he talks about how a consultant brings fresh eyes. And one of the most important things about those…I’ve seen it many times where a client will tell you all their problems and then you go through the solution, they thought, ‘How come we didn’t think of that?’ Yeah, and that’s one of the beauties of a consultant: is they can actually see all these opportunities that you can’t see. Because when you’re so busy in it, in some cases you’re always putting fires out all the time that you actually don’t have time to build opportunities and to make opportunities happen. You can’t. And one of the things that I learnt over time and time, sometimes, just taking someone out of that environment and taking them and just for the day work on their business, is actually enough value on a time.

I think more and more people need to realize that you need to disconnect from your business. You need to disconnect from people. Because we just get consumed with all the clutter and all the scatter that we just don’t find the one or two things that if we just did and we did really, really well, we would actually achieve whatever we want to achieve. I call it ‘filtering system.’ You go to these seminars and stuff and you get all these JV opportunities and everyone wants to be your best friend as long as you’ve got a list. And you know, one of the things that I learned is that when I started getting more successful, I started getting more opportunities. And the more successful I got, I got more and more opportunities. I’m thinking like, ‘Where were all these opportunities when I had no money and no time?’

So one of the things that I do is that I set out a criteria. If someone presents me a business opportunity or gives me an idea, I go through this list, you know:
How much will I make with this opportunity?
How long is it going to take?
Who’s driving or who is responsible for this business?
What are we selling? What are we doing?
What budget have we allocated for it?
What are the risks involved.
But the most important question is what I call the ‘Opportunity Ratio’ test. Because remember, whenever you decide to do something, it means you’re not doing something else.

West: Yes. Opportunity cost.

Chen: Opportunity cost. So you’ve got to know your opportunity cost. And what you do is when you find out where your opportunity cost is, you might think, okay— it puts some reality into that—okay, that’s a part-time business.

And one of the things that I’ve learned lately is that it’s okay to be what’s called a ‘chicken’ entrepreneur. A chicken entrepreneur is someone who has their job and keeps their job, but on the side they do a little venture, a little business opportunity. And I actually, honestly West, I think in the emerging new economy, that’s actually one of the best models going out there because your job gives you your income security but you business opportunity allows you to learn, grow, network, socialize. But also, it will fuel and develop your mindset to be an entrepreneur.

And that’s one of the things, is that—you know—some people can do it straightaway and cut all ties or jump. But with other people, it needs to be gradual. It’s like when we came to buy a practice. And everyone told us, “Don’t do it. Don’t do it. You can’t buy a practice with no money down. You shouldn’t do it. It’ll be too stressful,” and they said it was out of gradient. Now, I didn’t understand what that meant back then but now that I’ve gone through it, I understand totally what they meant. It was literally like we jumped into the deep end. Now for some people, you know what, you thrash about you can survive; but for others they’ll just drown. And sometimes it’s better just to dip your foot in the pool, you know? You invest in one moneymaking system and you save for the worst, because at the end of the day, one of that works or not. It’s actually not on the system; it’s based on you, on what you do to the system.

West: And I’m assuming obviously, when people approach, when your clients talk to you, you take them to a similar process. I know it might be an elaborate process that you really take the time and the care to make sure that they make the right decisions as well when they’re talking with you.

Chen: Well, one of the things is that—and you might want to use this on your business, if you have a business out there—is that when someone approaches you it’s about positioning. It’s not about selling. Too many people are too keen to make the sale. My friend, Ari, says “it’s about building trust first. And never ever pitch the sales until you get permission.” And I love Ari’s game process because it makes so much sense.

And one of the things I find these days is that because there’s such a massive amount of marketing and messages out there, it’s so important that you build the relationship and trust. And that’s why the fourth step—I often talk about it—is mentoring: having someone in there in your life, in your ear as a platform of support but also a board where you can bounce ideas off, to actually guide you. See, that’s what mentors do…they guide you. I took up mentoring very early. Actually, my first mentor is in chiropractic. And I found that the experience gave me the confidence and security of knowing that you can venture as far as you want and they’ll be like your GPS; they’ll always put you back on track even if you took the wrong turn.

Now the problem is, is that some of the mentors and coaches, their whole business is based on your income. I’ve heard clients where they’re outgrowing their mentor but they have to stay in the group because the problem is the mentor didn’t want them to out grow them. Now the best coaches and mentors—I can tell you right now, West—they allow their students to outgrow them. There are too many coaches out there that live in scarcity. And they feel that “if my client goes to that seminar or that coaching program, they’ll drop me.”

In America, I found a lady that was in three coaching programs. One was 5,000; one was 10,000; and one was 30,000. Now she said that she’s in each of those different groups for different reasons. The 30,000 one, would you believe that she only is in that group for socializing, you know. The 10,000 dollar group is a business mastermind. And the 5,000 dollar group is an internet mastermind.

A lot of people have different types of coaches. And I think it’s important to know what type of coach do you want because there are just so many coaches out there. Like I predicted the coaching boom for Australia many years ago because I could see it in America. In America, coaching is a standard thing everyone got. But in Australia at that time, no one really got coached. I mean, yes, sure, there were a lot of life coaches but they were more like glorified counselors, you know. No one really had strategies in place. It was more an outlet to talk to. Whereas these days, the coaching industry has really matured and really evolved and…

West: Systemized as well. A lot more firm and structured.

Chen: Yeah. And it’s great people like Sharon Pearson out there—from the Coaching Institute—that have actually created structures for coaches. Because in the past, the coaches were like the Wild, Wild West—everyone just did what they wanted. There’s no accreditation. There’s no set agendas, set curriculum. And that’s why it’s important that people can put it together so that you get a bit of a gold standard. You know, some of the people use me for just ideas; others, it’s just having access to me but they’ll pay me to have access. Some of them pay for me to sit on their advisory board. For others, it’s actually coming up and implementing a full marketing program. I know in other mastermind groups they just want me to sit there during meetings with their members to give access to the feedback. But also, at high level masterminding sometimes it’s only a contact that they want. For example, in a speaker mastermind, a lot of people just want me to actually put their name in front of a promoter.

You know, you’ve got to find out what coach you have and why they’re in life. And I really believe that if you really apply yourself and you’re progressive, within one or two years you’ll outgrow your coach. So don’t get too attached to it. A coach is there for a reason. And it is a relationship. But also, if you get clear on what you want, you’ll work out very clearly how long a coach will be there. I mean, I remember a lot of my friends in chiropractic. She signed a two-year apprenticeship or an internship with this lady. And I said to her that she will be over it in six months because she’ll learn everything she needs to know from this lady in six months. And sure enough, when it was six months later she called me up and said, “Look, Chen, I think I have outgrown this lady.” And the only reason why I knew that was because she was doing a lot of personal development and this lady wasn’t. This lady did the typical one-year experience for twenty years.

West: Wow.

Chen: Whereas my friend was making twenty mistakes, having twenty different experiences in a year.

West: Wow, that’s such a huge, huge distinction there. And I think a lot of the listeners can do that. Why don’t you tell us about the last step, Chen, which is the maven. I’m really interested to hear about it.

Chen: The last one is a maven. And a maven is pretty much about being the expert. And at the highest levels, it’s about being a personal brand. It’s like Oprah Winfrey, you know. Look, a lot of people at the moment feel sorry for Oprah because she’s stopping her show. But make no mistake, she is actually stopping her show is because she’s got her own network. Now I don’t know about you, West, but I’ll give up my TV show for my own network. And one thing that needs to be understood is that by becoming a maven, it’s not so much about being a guru anymore. I think the age of gurus is very overrated now because anyone these days can be a guru. It’s not hard. I mean, there are so many publishing opportunities out there at the moment where you can actually buy a chapter. You don’t even have to write your book these days. There are so many people who will offer you a service where you can be an instant bestselling author because of what other ten, fifteen, twenty other authors that contribute to the book.

Now the reality is, that’s great within a marketing point of view. And it’s great from a positioning point of view because it gives you credibility. But from a strategic point of view, a lot of times these books don’t give you enough room to tell your story. Like one of the best books around is Think and Grow Rich. And if you read Think and Grow Rich again, and read it from a sales point of view, you realize how brilliant it is because it takes you through all the emotion, it sets up a story. It’s not just a manual for life. It’s actually a great long piece sales copy. But not many people are aware of that.

West: Interesting.

Chen: So for me, a maven is about your ability to sell your self, it’s ability to speak, it’s ability to communicate, it’s ability to build a team, it’s leadership. There’s a whole lot of stuff.

West: Yeah. I’m just commenting and thinking that when you say personal branding, you know, you were telling me in a private chat the other day that you actually need to put together a strategy. But in order to achieve that, you can’t just hope it happens and sort of doodle around.

Chen: That’s right, West. And you know what the tracking or branding at the moment is? Social media has allowed a lot more people to be instant celebrities. I mean, Perez Hilton will be a no one with out the internet. Natalie Tran will be no one without YouTube. There are always people that made themselves big in the industry—and it’s like I said, it’s such a small niche but they’re being significant in it.

What I’ve learned in this game is that you can be a real big fish in a small pond. The key is to actually find that small group of people that you can be the trusted adviser. That’s why I think in the future years we’re all looking for our trusted advisers. No more gurus. No more experts. We want trusted advisers because there’s a lack of trust these days, because the internet marketing messages are very manipulative these days. I think that’s one of the reasons why the seminar industry is struggling at the moment, West, is because a lot of these people make these outrageous promises in the sales. And you read it and you attend it and you find, geez, none of that was covered. And because they built it up and they thought it was an opportunity for them to change their life, the reality hits them and thinks, hang on, ‘I actually didn’t come out with anything new. I didn’t come out with anything worth…’

West: But also in line with what you’re saying there, I noticed when I do go to a seminar—because like yourself, I like to network and I follow actually a lot of what you’re talking about—when a speaker makes the most sales, for example, they are the ones that build the most trust and have the most human side to their presentations.

Chen: In my advance speaking, consulting and coaching, I tell them that what every speaker sell from stage—it doesn’t matter what vehicle they sell or what product they sell—the essence of what they’re really selling is trust. So they’re selling trust wrapped around property. They’re selling trust wrapped around trading or trust around internet. Now what you’re selling is actually trust. And that’s why the best speakers are the ones that keep the audience engaged.

West: Yes.

Chen: They’re the ones that make the most sales. That’s why you can go to an event and think it’s the best event because you’re totally engaged in the process whereas if you go to another event and there’s another guy, and out of his hour’s talk he’s spending forty minuets pitching his product and services and you’re thinking, ‘Hang on, that was just one big giant infomercial and I didn’t learn a thing.’

Now this is one of the biggest problems: is that there’s a structure to crafting your presentation. I mean I’ve been responsible for many million dollar pitches. I’ve been able to craft offers and also show some of these speakers how to set up their presentation.

I can tell you now, West, I’m not a speaker. And you know that; I’m not a speaker. But the thing is that once you work with these guys a long time, you can actually see commonalities for success. And when you take these elements out and you apply them to someone new and they get results, you’re thinking now, ‘Hang on. This is becoming more of a science.’ And I think that’s one of the things with why a lot of speakers get drawn to me and my work and what I do is because they see that, ‘hang on, he’s actually teaching us the business and marketing side of our business, which we’ve never looked at. We’ve been going to all those speaking courses that tell us how to hold our hands and tell us how to make our facial expressions, tell us what to wear,’ you know. ‘Whereas this guy is telling us, hang on, “No. This is how you leverage your product and service.”’

I remember one lady, for example, she went from just selling her book, a $20 book at the back of the room, to selling a $500 package, to selling a $2,000 license and opportunity at the back of the room. I remember a fitness guy who wanted to get on the big stage and I told him, “Mate, if you want to get on the big stage you need to do at least fifty grand.” Now at this point in his life, he was selling out a $147 product. And he was averaging $10,000-$14,000 of sales every time he spoke, which is still good; but not good enough for the high levels. So I said to him, “Mate, if you want to get to those high levels you’ve got to sell the opportunity to make money.” So he turned his package, his $147 package, into a license and opportunity where a health professional could buy his kit, duplicate it as many times as they want, and actually keep all the profits. Now to make it even more sexy: ‘You can buy the rights, we’ll give you a license to print it and we’ll also fulfill and ship the first fourteen packs. So therefore, you’re not literally paying any money for your license.’

West: Wow. That’s so cool.

Chen: Now you can tell a pitch is going well, West, when people start walking to the back of the room and they don’t know the price. That’s one of the things that I boast. I watch three people walk to the back of the room and they were signing up. And the people at the back of the room said, “Uh, can you just hold on? We don’t know the price yet.” And that’s one of the things that’s really interesting, West.

Now long story short: I think he did about $64,000 during that presentation.

West: That’s awesome.

Chen: Now he got noticed. Other promoters started noticing him as well. Other opportunities came up. And this is the thing West, is that a lot of us, with the right advise or right strategy, it can actually take us to a whole new level. See, I know that about being a maven. I’ve sort of become one by default, I think. It’s sort of a process that’s happened. Like I’ve never actually seen myself as an expert but by just being in the seminar environment and having people ask you questions. I mean, I remember a guy approach me in a seminar—I do one of those off-the-cuff comments that didn’t mean anything—but I said to him, “Look, mate. If you want extra income why don’t you try your copywriting services on Rentacoder?” You know, six months later, I get this email from this same guy and he said, “Chen, thank you so much. Thanks for your advice. I’m making $2,000 a month on Rentacoder now with my copywriting.” He even had the opportunity to fly over to America and be mentored by a really well-known copywriter as well from the funds that he was able to generate from Rentacoder.

West: Awesome. I know you could just pump out story after story after story of how you’ve helped people. And I think in future calls—which I’d like to do with you—we’ll definitely cover a lot of those topics.

So in closing, I want to now give you the opportunity to tell people how you can add value to them. And one thing I want to mention here is your Conversations with Chen on Facebook. And I know that’s available for people to read. So that’s the first thing I’d recommend people do—with your permission of course—is to join that group.

And secondly, if they’re looking at learning more about you, Chen, and figuring out how they could benefit from your wisdom and guidance, what would you say?

Chen: Well West, you know, you’re just spot on. I’m putting my time and energy and heart into that Conversations with Chen because I’m very committed at giving away my best stuff. But one of the things that I’ve learned in this whole process is that by giving away your best stuff, you attract the people you want in your life. Facebook is a digital community. And basically, you get some of the best people in that environment. And it blows me away. I’ve actually started collecting the feedback. I used to—when anyone sent me feedback—I used to just delete it. But now I’ve started collecting them up because I was getting so many at one stage that it’s hard to keep up with that. But the reality is, is that I found that people want authenticity. People don’t want to be shocked. People don’t want to make mistakes again. They want an environment where they know it’s safe.

West: And they don’t want to be sold to.

Chen: And they don’t want to be sold to. And this is the thing that I’ve learned, West. Because I’ve looked at, you know, having spent all that money in this self-help, personal development game, a lot of people ask me to be speaking and offer coaching and stuff and I’ve never done that because in the past I’ve always had six-figure opportunities with speakers, coaches and consultants. I’ve never needed to work with people starting out.

But times have changed, West. This whole economy has really dented a lot of people’s dreams and aspirations. Like what I’m doing with you today, West, I mean this whole thing started because I mean, you know, if we tell them a little bit about our relationship, I always kick you up the bum. And I’ve always believed in you and it’s been over a year now that we’ve kept in touch. And I’ve also given you opportunities to go to seminars. I introduced you to some very high profile people as well.

West: Absolutely.

Chen: And part of the reason why I’m doing that this year is to allow you to monetize all that information you have. Remember how we spoke about your strength as an interviewer? Now imagine if you’re a speaker or someone who wants to get your brain down on paper, if someone like you can draw it out, it will fast-track what you’re trying to achieve. And I think that’s what I’m trying to do. I’ve learned that I’m at a stage in my career, in my life now where—I mean for examp le, I’ve taken on a new project that I know will not derive any income for three years. Now it’s great to be in a position to do that but I also am aware of the fact that there’s a lot of other people out there that just actually want access to me. And so I’m working on some programs and some opportunities. So if you’re not on Facebook, I highly recommend you get a Facebook and sign up to the Conversations with Chen. If you’re not on there, the messages will actually be reposted on my blog, which is www.chentay.com.

Now one of the things that I’ve learned in that whole process is that I want to be different. I’ve looked at the coaching game. I’ve looked at the marketing game. I’ve stayed away from it this year because I wanted to keep it simple but also to keep it clear on what I’m offering. And basically, I want to be a difference. I want to make a difference. And I don’t want to be just another coach out there. the thing that I discovered, where I’m different from a lot of the other coaches and a lot of the other businesses out there is the fact that I provide that platform for support, I can help clients engineer their environment for them to succeed. And also, I can introduce you to my network of successful people for opportunities.

And what I found in the past, when I was beta testing this in the last year, is that any client that paid upfront and was honoring their commitments got results. Whereas two clients who agreed to go on the program and was always out of financial exchange and never paid their bills, they got no results. So West, it’s the universal law of fair exchange. So what I’m trying to do now is create this program where there’s a great opportunity for people that want to accelerate what they’re doing. And to be honest with you, this program’s pretty much suited to speakers, coaches, and seminar promoters or people that want to get into the seminar game, whether you want to have that as a separate business to your business—I often call that a business within the business—because at this day and age, more and more people are learning how to take the information from their head and digitizing it.

Now a lot of people had said to me, “Yeah, but Chen, aren’t you then selling time for dollars? And my answer to that is that, “You know what? If you’re getting paid enough for what you want, there’s nothing wrong with earning a high amount per hour.”

West: Absolutely.

Chen: I think people are bought over the fact that they’re told about this passive income and passive revenue and stuff like that. But they forget that it doesn’t matter what you do in life, if it’s worth doing, it’s worth working for.

You know mate, I love it when I see clients like yourself and Bret and Pete Godfrey and a lot of these guys, make big breakthroughs. No amount of money will hide my joy at seeing those results. One of the things is also…I guess the most valuable part of what I do is being an unreasonable friend that kicks you up the butt when you need it. Because you know, West, I can trumpet and support you but the thing is I’m sure you’ve got other friends in your life that will comfort you when you’re down full in your face. I don’t want to be one of those people. I want to be the unreasonable friend that keeps pushing you because my job, my goal is to unlock that greatness from with you. Because I think that there’s nothing worse than having all the skills and all the talents and being over-educated underachiever.

West: Absolutely. I have to second everything there that Chen said, not only about his clients but also in his interactions with my self. So you can consider this a kind of a mini testimonial in the interactions that we’ve had. You’ve pushed me and helped me have massive breakthroughs and definitely kicked my ass on a regular basis, which I don’t enjoy at the time but look back and thank you for.

Chen: Well, one of the reasons why I do that, mate, is that I see in this game time and time again—and it’s probably good to finish up on this—is that too many people keep chasing these bright, shiny objects, these magic pills and stuff like that because it distracts them from building a real business. And the reality is business is very simple. People complicate it because we always have to believe that’s somewhere out there someone’s doing it easier, better, faster. Because the reality is, it doesn’t matter what they’re doing—it’s actually what this whole process is about, it’s who we’re becoming. I mean, the late Jim Rohn always had this one quote that I live by: “Don’t wish things be easier, wish it were better.” And I live by that, you know. And I’m very grateful for learning that lesson from him because I’ve never ever wished things were easier. I’ve always tried to be better because when you get better, when you reach the top of your game, new opportunities will present.

I remember when I was in America, Ali Brown said a line that just resonated with me. And she said, “What if you grew and your business didn’t? Or what if your business grew and you didn’t?” I mean, I’ve seen so many speakers and promoters and coaches that their businesses are outgrowing them and they don’t know how to put a team in place, they don’t know how to let go, they’re still running that one-man shop when in fact they could be a multi-million dollar company. But you know…if they choose not to, that’s fine. But it’s like trying to accelerate by having the foot on the brake at the same time. There’s a lot happening but you’re not getting anywhere. That’s one of the things that I think is important to let the members know: that if you have that support—and you know this, West. I mean, I’ve been a real big fan, a real big advocate of yours in all things…

West: Thank you.

Chen: Because the thing is, at this day and age, in this economy, in this emerging new economy, talent is getting harder and harder to find because most people aren’t prepared to do the work. Most people aren’t prepared to do that. They fall for these illusions of the 4-Hour Work Week and all this other stuff that promotes push-button wealth. And the reality is, is that you actually have to do stuff. The thing is, if you do stuff—I’m telling you now—it accumulates and it sets you up for the next opportunity. You don’t need to spend a lot of money. But if you can harness your money into one direction… or one of the rules that I put in place that changed my life is that ‘one guru a year.’

I’m in the process now actually of finding out who that guru is because each year that I’ve gotten this rule, I found that it’s so much easier to study one person and study them well and follow them and do everything they say than it is trying to do ten programs all at once.

West: Very insightful.

Chen: I mean, I’m sure you know this too because I’m sure you’re in a lot of opt-in list and you get a lot of offers and opportunities. And one of the things is that, what I’ve done is that I’ve learned that my programs are going to be more experiential. Now I want to take you to an event and show you behind-the-scenes.

West: Yes. And I think you’ve done one recently. Tell us about that group.

Chen: Well, yeah. I took a group over to America and we had a road trip. So we went there and not only do they get good information but the day afterwards we sat down and debriefed. And also, seven people wanted to make certain contacts and I was able to align people up with different contacts. But just the opportunities to find new marketing, new models over there: is priceless. Now I know that next year—you know, I had a lot of people ask me what events are next—and what I learned is that people want more experiences…because that’s what it’s about. No one ever, on their death bed complains that they didn’t work enough or they wish they did over time. I mean, we all talk about our experiences. And I think that’s where this shift that’s happening in the marketplace is that, you know, from what I’m seeing from my point of view is that women are evolving—we’re in trouble, mate—because they’re finding their voice, they’re finding their power. They’ve got choices now. And it’s not going to be long before they realize they’re actually going to need us but the reality is that if you provide a support mechanism, let the women grow. I spoke to a guy the other day, I said, “Mate, let your wife grow. Because if she grows and keeps supporting your family, you can just stay home, look after the kids and play golf. What more do you want?”

West: Well, on that note Chen… you’ve just got so much wisdom and wealth so you could probably talk—literally—for weeks on end and lift up on the amount of value that you’re adding. But we’re going to have to capture those in future calls.

So for those listening, you can find about Chen by visiting ChenTay.com or going on Facebook and looking up Conversations with Chen as a group. It’s one of the best things you’ll ever do, better than any list that I’ve ever been on. And he doesn’t sell you any stuff. It’s just pure authentic observations of life, business, education and experiences.

And on that note, I think we’ve been very sport today to have Chen for over an hour to chat with us and share with us. So Chen, thank you for your time.

Chen: Thank you, West!