最佳Pablo Castellanos播客 (2024)

1
PT560 – Philosophy and Psychedelics: Can Metaphysics Bring Meaning to Non-Ordinary States?, with Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-Hughes 1:01:40

18h ago1:01:40

1:01:40

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-Hughes: philosopher, lecturer at the University of Exeter, co-director of the Breaking Convention conference, and author who most recently co-edited Philosophy and Psychedelics: Frameworks for Exceptional Experience. He discusses how the work of William James and an early psilocybin experience led …

1
PT559 – The Penn Psychedelics Collaborative and the Power of Interdisciplinary Connections, with Taylor Andrews Flatt, PMHNP, Victor Pablo Acero, Ph.D., Jackie Tileston, and Michael Baime, MD 40:45

5d ago40:45

40:45

In this episode, Joe interviews 4 members of the Penn Psychedelics Collaborative: Co-Founder, Taylor Andrews Flatt, PMHNP; Associate Director, Victor Pablo Acero, Ph.D.; Professor in Fine Arts and Co-Director of the Weitzman School of Design, Jackie Tileston; and Executive Director and Director of the Penn Program for Mindfulness, Michael Baime, MD…

1
PT558 – What You Need to Know About Massachusetts' Question 4 and the Natural Psychedelic Substances Act, with Graham Moore and Jamie Morey 1:13:56

8d ago1:13:56

1:13:56

In this episode, Joe interviews two people on the frontlines of the campaign for Massachusetts' Question 4: The Natural Psychedelic Substances Act: Graham Moore and Community Engagement Director, Jamie Morey. They discuss the specifics of the initiative, listed on the ballot as the “Limited Legalization and Regulation of Certain Natural Psychedelic…

1
PT557 – Psychedelic Education Through a Healing Justice Lens, with Diana Quinn, ND 1:11:59

12d ago1:11:59

1:11:59

In this episode, Joe interviews Diana Quinn, ND: naturopathic doctor, healing justice practitioner, and director of clinical education at the Naropa Center for Psychedelic Studies, where she directs their Psilocybin Facilitator Training certificate program. She discusses her path from anthropology to naturopathy, and eventually to psychedelics and …

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PT556 – The FDA, MDMA, and Public Perception: Was the FDA Fair to Lykos?, with Rick Doblin, Ph.D. 1:13:02

15d ago1:13:02

1:13:02

In this episode, Joe interviews Rick Doblin, Ph.D.: founder and president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), and former board member at Lykos Therapeutics, MAPS’ public benefit subsidiary. Doblin tells his side of the story: that the FDA’s concerns with double blinding not working had been fully addressed ahead of …

1
PT555 – Protecting Indigenous Wisdom: Rethinking Psychedelic Legalization, with Gabriela Galindo 1:16:16

19d ago1:16:16

1:16:16

In this episode, Kyle interviews Gabriela Galindo: program coordinator of FLOWS (Foundations for Leaders Organizing for Water and Sustainability), an organization working towards social and environmental justice, ecosystem restoration, community building, and the preservation and protection of Indigenous medicines. She discusses her entry point to …

1
PT554 – The Hero's Journey: Finding Your Story in Psychedelic Healing, with Mareesa Stertz 1:06:51

22d ago1:06:51

1:06:51

In this episode, Joe interviews Mareesa Stertz: lead of strategy/communications at the Global Psychedelic Society, co-founder of Lucid News, and filmmaker, currently finalizing her second feature film, “Confessions of a Psychonaut.” She discusses her path to wanting to create the film: how she always felt like something was wrong with her but didn’…

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PT553 – Healing Psychedelics: Where Science Meets Spirit, with Micah Stover & Craig Heacock, MD 1:11:57

26d ago1:11:57

1:11:57

In this episode, Joe interviews Micah Stover: certified psychedelic somatic therapist and author of the upcoming book, Healing Psychedelics: Innovative Therapies for Trauma and Transformation; and Craig Heacock, MD: adolescent, adult, and addiction psychiatrist, and host of the Back from the Abyss podcast. Stover discusses the inspiration for the b…

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PT552 – The Globalization of Ayahuasca, Psychedelic Parenting, and the Power of Ceremony, with Glauber Assis, Ph.D. 1:42:55

29d ago1:42:55

1:42:55

In this episode, David interviews Glauber Assis, Ph.D.: research associate at the Interdisciplinary Group for Psychoactive Studies, director of the Psychedelic Parenthood community, Vital instructor, and leader of Jornadas de Kura, a plant medicine center in Brazil. He talks about growing up in Brazil in the shadows of colonialism, and how he felt …

1
PT551 – Tripped: The Connection Between LSD, Nazi Germany, and MKUltra, with Norman Ohler 1:02:39

1M ago1:02:39

1:02:39

In this episode, Joe interviews award-winning novelist and screenwriter, Norman Ohler. Following in the footsteps of "Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich," his newest book, "Tripped: Nazi Germany, the CIA, and the Dawn of the Psychedelic Age," tells the story of how the Nazi’s passion for methamphetamine turned into a curiosity about LSD, and how the…

1
PT550 – Intention, Making Space for Integration, and Finding Joy in the Mundane, with Lana Pribic, M.Sc, CPC 1:14:48

1M ago1:14:48

1:14:48

In this episode, Kyle interviews Lana Pribic, M.Sc: host of the Modern Psychedelics podcast, certified professional life coach, and founder of Kanna Wellness. She talks about her early days of rave culture and MDMA, to exploring other substances, to where she is today: finding joy in the simple things in life, embracing recreational psychedelics, a…

1
PT549 – Why Did the FDA Reject MDMA-Assisted Therapy for PTSD?, with Ingmar Gorman, Ph.D. 1:03:06

1M ago1:03:06

1:03:06

In this episode, Joe interviews Ingmar Gorman, Ph.D.: clinical psychologist and co-founder and CEO of Fluence, a psychedelic education company. Gorman served as a co-principal investigator and study therapist on MAPS’ Phase II and III clinical trials for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, and works with drug sponsors: training, developing the co…

1
PT548 – Finding Your Soul's Purpose: Harnessing Psychedelic Insights for Professional Growth, with Beth Weinstein 1:42:50

1M ago1:42:50

1:42:50

In this episode, Kyle interviews Beth Weinstein: spiritual business coach, host of the “Medicine For These Times” podcast, and founder of the Psychedelics, Sacred Medicines, Soul’s Purpose & Business summit. She talks about a pattern she noticed of people working with psychedelics and seeing progress on what they set out to heal, but with a short-l…

1
PT547 – Coaching, Fractal Inquiry, and How to Create Your Own Psychedelic Integration Circle, with Daniel Shankin 1:13:45

2M ago1:13:45

1:13:45

In this episode, David interviews Daniel Shankin: psychedelic integration coach, Vital instructor, and founder and director of Tam Integration. He talks about the underrated importance of integration circles, how he created Tam Integration out of a personal need for them, how simple it can be for people to create their own groups, and how open-ende…

1
PT546 – Psychedelic Outlaws: Cluster Headaches, Citizen Science, and the Story of ClusterBusters, with Joanna Kempner, Ph.D. 1:01:36

2M ago1:01:36

1:01:36

In this episode, Joe interviews Joanna Kempner, Ph.D.: associate professor in the Department of Sociology at Rutgers University and author of the recently released, Psychedelic Outlaws: The Movement Revolutionizing Modern Medicine. The book profiles the history and groundbreaking work of ClusterBusters, a nonprofit researching and spreading awarene…

1
PT545 – Breathwork, Holding Space, and the Healing Power of Connection: Documenting the Dreamshadow Community, with Mustapha Khan 1:11:13

2M ago1:11:13

1:11:13

In this episode, Kyle interviews Mustapha Khan: Emmy Award-winning director with over 100 film and television credits, who has worked with clients such as Coca-Cola and Honda, and celebrities ranging from Maya Angelou to Snoop Dogg. Khan is finalizing a film about Lenny and Elizabeth Gibson and their ongoing work at Dreamshadow – the people and com…

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PT544 – Psychedelics and Addiction Recovery: Microdosing and Redefining the Path to Sobriety, with Danielle Nova 1:04:58

2M ago1:04:58

1:04:58

In this episode, Joe interviews Danielle Nova: founder of Psychedelic Recovery, founding team member of Decriminalize Nature Oakland, and Executive Director of the San Francisco Psychedelic Society. As a recovering addict, Nova discusses how working with psychedelics helped her find her way to recovery, and how she's spreading that knowledge to oth…

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PT543 – Empathy and Agency: Why Psychedelic Practitioners Need to be Trauma-Informed, with Deanna Rogers 1:18:25

2M ago1:18:25

1:18:25

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Deanna Rogers: Registered Clinical Counselor and Vital instructor. She discusses how trauma grows in our bodies, and the importance of practitioners and facilitators becoming trauma-informed before working with clients. She stresses the need to create the right conditions for clie…

1
PT542 – The Illinois CURE Act: Shaping the Future of Psychedelic Policy, with Jean Lacy & Representative La Shawn K. Ford 1:02:09

2M ago1:02:09

1:02:09

In this episode, Joe interviews Jean Lacy: Executive Director of the Illinois Psychedelic Society; and La Shawn K. Ford: 17-year member of the Illinois House of Representatives, representing the 8th District. Together, they are working on the CURE (Compassionate Use and Research of Entheogens) Act, which aims to decriminalize plant medicines and br…

1
PT541 – Regenerative Economics and Psychedelics: Creating More Connected Leadership, with Rachelle Sampson, Ph.D. & Bennet Zelner, Ph.D. 51:56

2M ago51:56

51:56

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Rachelle Sampson, Ph.D.: researcher and founder of Blue Prism Coaching; and Bennet Zelner, Ph.D.: researcher, speaker, and creator of the Pollination Approach. They are both Vital instructors and Associate Professors at the Robert H. Smith School of Business, University of Marylan…

1
PT540 – Ancestral Teachings for the Psychedelic Renaissance, with Alonso Del Río & Francisco Rivarola 44:57

2M ago44:57

44:57

As the psychedelic renaissance continues to spread throughout the West, we learn more about these substances and experiences every day. But are we losing the important ancestral teachings and Indigenous knowledge that got us here? In this episode, Kyle interviews Alonso Del Río: author, musician, filmmaker, founder of the Center for Healing and Con…

1
PT539 – Buddhist Philosophy, Shadow Work, and Integrating a Psychedelic Experience, with Kate Amy 1:08:17

3M ago1:08:17

1:08:17

In this episode of VItal Psychedelic Conversations, Vital instructor, Diego Pinzon hosts his first podcast, interviewing Vital graduate and clinically-trained psychologist, “The Kinki Buddhist”: Kate Amy. As Amy’s interest in psychedelics grew, she began to see a clear intersection between psychedelic states and the non-ordinary states she’d reache…

1
PT538 – Rumination, the Default Mode Network, and How Neuroplasticity Changes Over Time, with Dr. Jerry Rosenbaum & Sharmin Ghaznavi, MD, Ph.D. 1:03:03

3M ago1:03:03

1:03:03

In this episode, Chris Koddermann interviews two members of the Center for the Neuroscience of Psychedelics at Mass General Hospital: founding director, author, and co-founder of three drug development companies, Dr. Jerry Rosenbaum; and psychiatrist and associate director and director of cognitive neuroscience, Sharmin Ghaznavi, MD, Ph.D. Rosenbau…

1
PT537 – Microdosing at Work: How Psychedelics are Creating Better Leaders, with Tiffany Hurd 46:48

3M ago46:48

46:48

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Tiffany Hurd: microdosing coach, speaker, business leadership advisor, and student in our current cohort of Vital. After 15 years in the corporate healthcare industry and several years on antidepressants, she started microdosing psilocybin and saw an immediate change in her life, …

1
PT536 – Psychedelics and Creativity, Endo-Tripping, and the Origins of Life on Earth, with Dr. Bruce Damer 1:15:53

3M ago1:15:53

1:15:53

The path of the psychedelic renaissance has largely touched on the aspects of therapy, personal growth, and initiation rites, but now, the relationship between psychedelics and creativity is being studied more and more. Can psychedelics really increase intellect, novelty, and problem solving? In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Bruce Damer: astrobi…

1
PT535 – Jungian Psychology, Psychedelics, and the Multiplicity of Self, with Maria Papaspyrou & Dr. Ido Cohen 1:21:54

3M ago1:21:54

1:21:54

Jungian psychology takes a fascinating look at the relationship between the conscious and unconscious parts of our minds. How is this framework brought more to the forefront through psychedelics and an understanding of our many parts? In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Jung experts and Vital instructors: Maria Pa…

1
PT534 – Exploring the Fungal Kingdom: Cultivation, Connection, and the Potential of Permaculture, with Jasper Degenaars 1:06:31

3M ago1:06:31

1:06:31

As many mushroom enthusiasts will attest: the more you learn about the fungal kingdom, the more you see how important mushrooms are to every ecosystem they’re a part of – and how life-changing a relationship with them can be. In this episode, Joe interviews Jasper Degenaars: mycologist, educator, and the Hyphae Headmaster at Fungi Academy, offering…

1
PT533 – Psychedelics in Palliative Care: Screening, Safety Measures, and Experiences With the Divine, with Livi Joy 1:11:20

3M ago1:11:20

1:11:20

Psychedelics in palliative care has become an exciting new framework for people looking to ease anxiety and embrace spirituality, but the concept is not as simple as just providing a substance. In this episode, Joe interviews Livi Joy: Director of Health and Safety, Existential Palliative Ministry Lead Facilitator, and more at Sacred Garden Communi…

1
PT532 – Understanding Bad Trips: The Power and Potential of Adverse Psychedelic Experiences, with Erica Rex, MA 1:08:07

3M ago1:08:07

1:08:07

In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex, MA: award-winning journalist, past guest, thought leader on psychedelic medicine, and participant in one of the first clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression. She tells the story of her recent harrowing experience, brought on by 6 times the amount of Syrian rue that was recommen…

1
PT531 – Ecopsychology, Plant Dietas, and Plant Consciousness: Building a Relationship with Nature, with Monica Nieto and Jordana Ma 1:10:37

3M ago1:10:37

1:10:37

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Monica Nieto: Vital graduate, psychedelic facilitator and integration coach, and founder of Holistic TherapeutiX, a retreat center offering cannabis and breathwork retreats; and Jordana Ma: past Vital instructor and psychological counselor who runs retreats in Peru following the…

1
PT530 – Meditation, Exploring Spiritual Traditions, and the Wisdom of Plant Medicine, with Jon Reiss 1:01:05

4M ago1:01:05

1:01:05

In this episode, Joe interviews Jon Reiss: critically acclaimed filmmaker, author, and host of the Plantscendence podcast, which tells people’s psychedelic stories and is beginning its second season soon. He talks about his early days of directing Nine Inch Nails and Type O Negative videos, and how Plantscendence was born after he realized that the…

1
PT529 – Difficult Conversations, the Need for Culturally Competent Care, and Why Representation Matters, with Sara Reed & Alex H. Robinson 58:12

4M ago58:12

58:12

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Sara Reed: Vital instructor, lecturer, and lead psychedelic research therapist at Imperial College London; and Alex H. Robinson: Vital student, integration coach and psilocybin facilitator for Heroic Hearts Project, and distinguished Army SOF combat Veteran with a decade of active…

1
PT528 – Chronic Pain and Inducing Neuroplasticity With Psychedelics, with Lynn Watkins, Retired USAF, and C.J. Spotswood, PMHNP 1:08:15

4M ago1:08:15

1:08:15

In this episode, Joe and REMAP Therapeutics Founder, Court Wing, host Lynn Watkins: medically retired USAF JAG & Ops Resource Mgmt Specialist; and C.J. Spotswood, PMHNP: principle psychiatric clinician at REMAP Therapeutics, and author of The Microdosing Guidebook: A Step-by-Step Manual to Improve Your Physical and Mental Health through Psychedelic…

1
PT527 – Symptoms as Signals: Trauma and the Role of Inner Healing Intelligence, with Casey Paleos, MD 1:19:16

4M ago1:19:16

1:19:16

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Casey Paleos, MD: Vital instructor, researcher, psychiatrist with a private practice offering ketamine infusion therapy and KAP, and co-founder of Nautilus Sanctuary, a non-profit psychedelic research, education, and advocacy organization. Paleos talks about how stress creates tra…

1
PT526 – Transforming Trauma: Community, Connection, and the Healing Power of Vulnerability, with Peter A. Levine, Ph.D. 1:16:09

4M ago1:16:09

1:16:09

In this episode, Kyle interviews Peter A. Levine, Ph.D.: developer of Somatic Experiencing®, educator, and author of several best-selling books on trauma. His most recent book, An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey, is exactly that: a change from more scholarly writing into an extremely vulnerable telling of his early childhood trauma and h…

1
PT525 – Women and Psychedelics: History's Untold Stories, with Erika Dyck 1:06:28

4M ago1:06:28

1:06:28

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Erika Dyck: author, professor, historian, Vital instructor, and research chair in the History of Health & Social Justice at the University of Saskatchewan. Dyck talks about the book she co-edited: Women and Psychedelics: Uncovering Invisible Voices, which was released in March a…

1
PT524 – Building a Unified Psychedelic Future: Ethics, Standards, and a Path to Affordable Access, with Lia Mix, LMFT, CPTR 1:08:07

4M ago1:08:07

1:08:07

In this episode, Joe interviews Lia Mix, LMFT, CPTR: founder and CEO of Delphi, a consulting firm dedicated to the healthy growth of the psychedelic movement. After many years of working in community mental health and 15 years in the commercial health insurance industry (where she helped to establish coverage for autism), Mix was one of the first g…

1
PT523 – Self-Care, Destabilization, and the Holistic Nature of Psychedelics, with Kaitlin Roberson & Dr. Michele Cox, DO 1:17:24

4M ago1:17:24

1:17:24

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Kaitlin Roberson: Vital graduate and co-founder and CEO of Cacti Therapeutics, a psychedelic biotech company developing novel therapies for chronic pain; and Dr. Michele Cox, DO: current Vital student, veteran, physician, and co-founder of LifeBloom, a brand new company focusing o…

1
PT522 – An Inside look at the FDA and Early Drug Development, with Dr. Amanda Holley 1:03:06

4M ago1:03:06

1:03:06

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Amanda Holley: pharmacologist and regulatory consultant in nonclinical drug development, and previously a nonclinical pharmacology/toxicology reviewer at the FDA. With Lykos Therapeutics working towards FDA approval of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, ICER (Institute for Clinical and Economic Review) recentl…

1
PT521 – Community, Group Process, and Co-Creation: How to Build a Successful Retreat, with Alice Dommert & Kara Tremain, ACC 1:11:26

5M ago1:11:26

1:11:26

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews two Vital graduates: Alice Dommert: certified breathwork facilitator and co-founder of retreat company, The Infinite Center; and Kara Tremain, ACC: somatic practitioner and growth and development coach. A huge part of Vital is the experiential aspect of attending a retreat. Student…

1
PT520 – From the Eleusinian Mysteries to Modern Mysticism: The Role of Religion in the Psychedelic Experience, with Charles Stang 1:24:11

5M ago1:24:11

1:24:11

In this episode, Joe interviews Charles Stang: Professor of Early Christian Thought and the Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions at Harvard Divinity School. The Center was created to gain a better understanding of world religions by bringing scholars from their respective countries to study and live alongside Divinity School stud…

1
PT519 – Exploring Somatic Practices and Psychedelics, with Pierre Bouchard, LPC & Kara Tremain, ACC 1:36:41

5M ago1:36:41

1:36:41

In this episode – the first in the 2024 series of Vital Psychedelic Conversations – David interviews Pierre Bouchard, LPC: Vital instructor and lead trainer for the Congregation for Sacred Practices; and Kara Tremain, ACC: recent Vital graduate-turned-instructor, somatic practitioner, and growth and development coach. In this series, we pair up a V…

1
PT518 – The EMBARK Model of Psychedelic Therapy, with Alex Belser, Ph.D. & Bill Brennan, Ph.D. 1:01:11

5M ago1:01:11

1:01:11

In this episode, Kyle interviews Alex Belser, Ph.D. and Bill Brennan, Ph.D.: psychologists, psychedelic researchers, authors, and co-creators of the EMBARK model, a framework for psychedelic therapy. When Belser and Brennan worked together at Cybin, they canvassed the field of psychedelic research and saw very little reporting (if any) of the manua…

1
PT517 – Long COVID and Psychedelics, Monica Verduzco-Gutierrez, MD, Joel Castellanos, MD, & MaryAnn Welke Lesage 53:23

5M ago53:23

53:23

In this episode, special guest host Court Wing interviews Monica Verduzco-Gutierrez, MD: professor and chair of rehabilitation medicine at UT Health San Antonio; Joel Castellanos, MD: co-founder and associate medical director of the Center for Psychedelic Research at UC San Diego; and MaryAnn Welke Lesage: a long COVID survivor who reports experien…

1
PT516 – Embracing the Mystery: Making Psychedelic Literature Engaging, with Sean Lawlor 1:02:49

5M ago1:02:49

1:02:49

In this episode, Joe interviews Sean Lawlor: writer and therapist specializing in ketamine-assisted therapy at Reflective Healing in Fort Collins, CO. His first book, Psychedelic Revival: Toward a New Paradigm of Healing, will be released on June 4. Written as somewhat of a primer for psychedelics and psychedelic therapy, he talks about how he deci…

1
PT515 – The Economics of Psychedelics, with Elliot Marseille, DrPH, MPP 1:09:02

5M ago1:09:02

1:09:02

In this episode, Joe interviews Elliot Marseille, DrPH, MPP: founding director of UC Berkeley’s Collaborative for the Economics of Psychedelics (CEP), a network of health economists and researchers analyzing the economics behind emerging psychedelic-assisted therapies. In the early days of drug research, efficacy was the leading factor in decision …

1
PT514 – Breaking Through Bureaucracy: Can D.C. Embrace Evidence-Based Drug Policy?, with Senator Tom Daschle and Charlie Panfil 58:53

5M ago58:53

58:53

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of The Daschle Group: Founder and CEO, Senator Tom Daschle; and Public Policy Advisor, Charlie Panfil. As Senator Daschle served in the House of Representatives for eight years (starting in 1978) and the Senate for 21, he was deep in the War on Drugs at its peak, and thankfully, as seen with so many of hi…

1
PT513 – Depth Psychology, Archetypal Energies, and How Psychedelics Reveal the Soul, with Simon Yugler 1:15:22

6M ago1:15:22

1:15:22

In this episode, Kyle interviews Simon Yugler: psychedelic-assisted therapist, educator, and author of the book, Psychedelics & the Soul: A Mythic Guide to Psychedelic Healing, Depth Psychology, and Cultural Repair, which comes out this fall. He digs into depth psychology and why it’s a beneficial framework for navigating non-ordinary experiences –…

1
PT512 – RIPPLES of Hope: Psychedelics as a Tool for Peacebuilding and Collective Healing, with Sami Awad and Leor Roseman, Ph.D. 1:21:49

6M ago1:21:49

1:21:49

In this episode, David interviews Sami Awad: Palestinian peace and nonviolent activist and founder of Holy Land Trust in Bethlehem; and Leor Roseman, Ph.D.: Israeli neuroscientist, researcher, and senior lecturer at the University of Exeter. They talk about Roseman's 2021 paper, "Relational Processes in Ayahuasca Groups of Palestinians and Israelis…

1
PT511 – The Other Side of Veteran Healing: Secondary PTSD and Post-Retreat Family Dynamics, with Allison Wilson & Dr. Grace Blest-Hopley 1:00:59

6M ago1:00:59

1:00:59

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project team: Director of Donor Development and founder of The Hope Project, Allison Wilson; and Director of Research and founder of Hystelica, Dr. Grace Blest-Hopley. They discuss how The Hope Project – a nonprofit that supports spouses of veterans, Gold Star Wives, and female vetera…

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