Ep. 34: Introducing Fun Into Work

Career Design Podcast

Ep. 34: Introduction Fun Into Work

Lindsay 00:00
I'm Lindsay Mustain and this is the Career Design Podcast made for driven ambitious square pegs and round holes type professionals who see things differently and challenge the status quo. We obliterate obstacles and unlock hidden pathways to overcome and succeed where others have not stagnation feels like death, and we are unwilling to compromise our integrity and settle for being average in any way. We are the backbone of any successful business and those who overlook our potential are doomed to a slow demise. We do work that truly matters aligns with our purpose, and in turn, we make our lasting mark on the world. We are the dreamers, doers, legends, and visionaries who are called to make our most meaningful contribution and love what we do.

Lindsay 00:42
Welcome to the Career Design Podcast today. I am so thrilled with my guest, she calls herself a chief fun officer and we're gonna dive deep into this Rebecca, do you mind introducing yourself to my audience?

Rebecca 00:56
No, I don't mind at all. Hi, everybody. I'm Rebecca Binnendyk and I am the new CFO, the Chief Fun Officer who doesn't need a chief fun officer in their life?

Lindsay 01:06
That was like that. So much more fun than the regular CFOs I know. I said to Rebecca when I first met her that we have a Chief Fun Officer here at Tom paradigm. She's seven and her name is Nora and she definitely has a lot of fun in spirit and that playfulness. So I want to know a little bit about the idea of how did you come up with Chief fun Officer and what did you see in businesses that made you realize that this was something that was missing?

Rebecca 01:36
Okay, so two, two questions there that I'll answer. So first of all, my entire life, I've been having fun. And you know, sometimes when we get older, we look back and we realized things about ourselves as we grow and develop personally. That's been really part of my growth journey. And in studying like neuroscience, and personalities, and all these things, I look back at myself, and I went, Holy smokes, I've been having fun my whole life, and not just frivolous fun, but fun, and taking risks, and doing things that people wouldn't do to have things that most people don't have, such as freedom and financial stability, and a career that I've designed that I love and that's always evolving. And it hasn't always been that way. But the choices I've made have been based on is that going to be fun, you know, is it going to be fun to fly to China, I don't speak a lick of Chinese but I'm going to go there. And that was at a very young age, you know, is it going to be fun to go down to Nashville and record my first album, and this was when I was, you know, in university and supposed to be doing a classical singing exam. Is it going to be fun to completely, you know, started a whole new company at 38 years old. Um, you know, it was all these things. And I just realized I was having fun. And if it wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it. So I had a career in teaching as well. I taught on off as a school teacher for 10 years. And you know what it got to be, to the point where it wasn't fun. So this kind of answers your second question. The policies, the red tape, the I don't know, the people at work, who were just so bent out of shape, when you would do something different. And I didn't fit in, I realized that for simple things, like letting kids stand up in the classroom, when they were doing no harm was, you know, looked down upon. So I quickly saw that this wasn't an environment for me. And then on top of that, I was hearing the kind of trends in corporate and in business, because I have a lot of friends that were working in corporate. And you know, basically, the trend was, I want to quit my job. I don't like working incorporate. How do I become an entrepreneur like you because, at that point, I quit teaching and became an I've been entrepreneur kind of at the same time as teaching for many years. But I had finally gone out on my own fully and was running my own business. And people were like, how do I do that? So I was like, Well, why Why does everybody want to quit corporate? And you know, I did some, some research on that and just questioning and surveying people. And really what it boiled down to was the community and the culture in this corporate world completely lacked fun. Nobody was being appreciated. They felt like they couldn't be themselves at work. They always felt judged. They couldn't wait for the weekends, talk about weekends, teachers, like life for the weekends in the summers. I committed myself to never do that. Once I had finally quit teaching, I had a plan and I was kind of smart about it. But you know, it was like, Okay, I'm not going to live for the weekends and for the holidays. I want my whole life to be like a weekend and a holiday. I want to enjoy the people I surround myself and I want to be the one in control of that. And So I guess the trends were just that, yeah, people were quitting. And it was because of culture. And not just, you know, you know, companies have tried for many years to make things a little bit better, but they've really missed the point. And I can talk about that a little bit later, too. But that kind of summarizes, you know, okay, so I guess I didn't say why. So then becoming the CFO, I guess I got really passionate about people being in corporate and being able to do those kinds of jobs because I knew that not everyone could quit their job and become an entrepreneur. That's a very, very specific set of skills to be an entrepreneur that needs to be learned, and not everyone in the world is gonna be able to do it. So I was not, I was not content with the fact that the entrepreneurs were going to get to create and design their own lives and career. But all these other people we were going to leave behind in corporate, it's always gonna suck. So I just decided, how can we make this a better space in the corporate world, and, and I realized, you know, there are leaders and bosses that want to change the way they've done business and there are examples in our world, like big companies that are doing it, now they have big budgets, but I believe that you are capable of creating a positive, fun culture, even without a huge budget. So I believed that everyone could make these changes, and we could improve the lives of many, even if they wanted to stay in a nine to five job.

Lindsay 06:37
I love that so much. And I think that we have, there's so much untapped brilliance that people have at work. And when they are told to stay small stay in a box, here's your black and white job description, I call those cages for talent, that just stifle their genius, that we diminish the opportunity, and then no time called this, like the death of innovation. And we wonder why it's happening when people aren't encouraged to really be innovative or to be different. We want them to be, you know, drones. And I just think that's just a powerful mindset. So when you when you've seen because as you've gone into businesses and helped introduce fun, tell me what happens for those people.

Rebecca 07:19
So there's, there's probably two elements, I think, for one, it's the CEO. And they become Okay, so they have to have an open mind. To begin with, you can't even change the culture of a company unless your CEO or founders have an open mind to this kind of work. So two elements, one would be the owner, and the founder does some really deep work on themselves, and they become a leader. They aren't just the CEO, they're, they're becoming the person who is the example, they're getting vulnerable. I like to say like, take your hat off for a second, your CEO hat, and just be human, just be a person. And when CEOs do that, and when they start being vulnerable. And for example, I'll give you a great example of a gentleman that I know he was working with his company having a really tough weekend. So just so much stress, because he had to do this, this, this, his list was so long, and he had to finish all this by Monday. And he was doing it all by himself. And this was a conversation I had. So he's a colleague, but his son, who's 19 years old, said to him, Dad, why don't you ask the people at work to help you? Why don't you tell them you're struggling with this and get it done together? And this is coming from a 19-year-old, which leads me into a whole other conversation but great ideas from that generation. Right? This is something we've done kind of done wrong. We tried to segregate and these you know, the 50-60-year-olds don't get the 20-year-old the new-gen. But if we just tried for a second, listen to their ideas and learn from one another how different the culture would be but this son said to his dad, he said that, well his dad immediately there's fear that comes up, right? It kind of bubbles up in his stomach. I can't do that I can't do that. Like then it kind of is deeming me weak, or like I don't know what I'm doing. And then he got over that real quick. He went back to his workplaces team. This was during COVID. And he told them Hey, guys, I just want you to know, it's been a really tough day because I've been trying to solve this problem all day and I don't know what to do. Well, didn't they all just get on a call and figure it out together. And not only does that change, I mean that the person so the CEO got over his fear. Congratulations, hand clap for you. But also he brought in these other people with like you just said they have their own geniuses and their own problem-solving techniques and their own experiences that they bring to the table. So Now do they not only see their leader not as the boss, but now as a human being a vulnerable individual who's undergoing stress, and they relate to him, and they go, Oh, cool, how can I help? This is the kind of community and, and culture you create. And as a CEO, you kind of have to decide, do you want a team? Or do you want a hierarchy? And once you've made that decision, then you can move forward with the people who you're working with, because you're all just people and, you know, see yourself CEOs are not ready to hear that. But we are all just individuals, and we are all just trying to do our best. And if we just gave them the chance to do their best, how much more they will do, and bring to the table. Can I just say, you know what the full fun idea? It revolves around this idea of being more childlike. And when we are teaching our children, we teach them to ask for help. We teach them to raise their hand in class, ask questions, the more questions you ask, the more you will learn. And yet somewhere along the line, Lindsay, we just become adults, we cross into this, this threshold, where all of a sudden, we have to be strong, we have to be for women, we have to be in our masculine, we have to prove that we're right. We have to, you know, know, 100% of the job before we say yes to taking it. We're hesitant to take raises because well, I don't know if I'm worth it. Where did we cross this line? And so I go in, encourage people to be more like you were when you were a kid, you know, how much time? And how much more would you learn if you raise your hand once in a while? And how much more would the CEO learn if he raised his hand once in a while and asked the rest of the team. So team mentality.

Lindsay 11:55
I love that so much. It literally lifts my heart to hear somebody talk about that. Because there's I mean, there's I can cite so many different studies here about why, why this actually changes, but we get conditioned, like, there's actually a Bernie brown goes back, I think she calls it creativity trauma. And it happens when we start to condition and you might have seen this as well, like around fourth and fifth grade where a horse can't be you can't draw a horse and it can't have two heads and blue spots. It has to be exactly like a horse, it has to look exactly and we take that out, we take away the fun. And then we say, you know, behave, be small, like stay here in this lane. And we forget that we are all people, we are all we have all of these things. I mean, the greatest constraints I've seen inside of businesses is when somebody isn't seen for the ability to bring a new idea like industries are dying without these innovations. And people just like inherently, they want to have a contribution. That's a core human need. We want to make a contribution. We want to have significance, we want to feel like we matter. And being radically candid and vulnerable is a big part of that. And that means allowing people to step up and express things and to applaud them for that versus say, you know, you're being difficult or going against the grain because that actually helps disrupt what's groupthink and groupthink is those that series of Yes, men. And it's why companies get into that decline cycle. And so when we start to do these shifts, which is inviting fun at work, and I want to also go in like what fun really isn't, because I think we have some ideas around what fun looks like at work and how those things actually really don't do much. But when we tap into that when we start to be there are three parts when I say like intentional career design and true career design, when we get rid of human resources, we break it out. There are three pieces and the first one is the transcendent CEO and CEO's leadership. It has to come from the top of sponsorship to have a safe environment. Yeah, to be different. Yes, it no longer fit in a box then has to start at the top. Okay. And then the second part is about the environment that we cultivate, right? And so that people feel safe, and they feel like they can stand in their power. And we don't tolerate things like there's something I say one of the tenants of the human-centric workplace is the no asshole rule, which is from Harvard Business Review, no, no assholes. And these things that we just create this environment that allows collaboration. And then the last part is the intentional career design, which is really allowing people to tap into their zones of genius thinking of this one person had this one idea. I'll give you an example. There's one person who created Prime Day, there's one person who created prime shipping and they are not the most senior leader, guess what? They were someone at a lower level. One person's genius, you know how many billions of dollars that one idea and Every business have this and they actually marginalize their people, minimize them and diminish them and tell them to play small and just stop being difficult or stop being creative. We conditioned it out of them. And this is where we see the really innovative CEOs and the real transformative businesses, they're rising to the top because they've turned into this genius. And really, that culture of fun is a big part of it. So I want to ask you here,

Rebecca 15:09
So can I pick? Can I piggyback that, just let me piggyback that really quick, what you're saying there about people needing a space to be creative, and, and to give back. And on top of that, an environment where they can be excel. They everybody wants an environment in a workplace where they can excel, meaning they can go up another level, they can have more to their job than just their job, because that's just human nature to want something more. So if we're creative, we like I think what it boils down to is create an environment where employees want to be where relationships are built, where clients and customers want to buy because they'll want to buy more if they feel this energy, they feel this, this fun, this, oh, my goodness, the employees want to be here I want to buy from this company, where and then companies in the league, inevitably, will have increased profits, charities raise more money. You know, it's just like you said, there are so many studies showing that if if you are listening to this right now, and you're thinking, well, what's the bottom line? What's the bottom line you know about the money? Well, I think Lindsay and I are both here to say that the bottom line is that these companies thrive, beyond they become the leaders in their industry when they focus on their culture and focus on each individual.

Lindsay 16:36
Yes, Oh, my gosh, profitability is the measure. And so it's when we get but we that is a very, and I'm going to leave into this a very fragile masculine thing to go into what's the bottom line? And that actually, if you go through that and forget that people are people, you've missed the whole damn point of this conversation. Absolutely. Oh, when I talk about the most transformative CEOs out there, and they're at the point where they want to break in that next level that transcendence CEO, they're not focused, they understand there's a point where reach altruism where I've already achieved my accomplishments. Now, I want to help others do that. And that's where we really step into that true transcendent style of leadership. Okay, so what is fun not? Is fun your ping pong table?

Rebecca 17:16
Yeah, I can talk about this a little bit. Yeah, you know, you'll find with especially some specific industries, like, I'll just use the example of the tech industry. So tech industries, um, I don't want to stereotype but they tend to be more male, male-dominated. And I think if you go back if you...

Lindsay 17:34
I must gonna say, let's stereotype, because not stereotype study, guys, so yeah

Rebecca 17:41
Totally true, totally true, white, white guys, on their computers. And I think, you know, a number of years ago, when you know, culture, it's not a brand new thing, people have been trying to improve their culture. But what they've been doing, what we're seeing now is that it's not working. So you can't just put a ping pong table. And you know, in a common area, you can't just give them beer on Fridays, you can't do those kinds of things and expect that the entire culture of your company is going to change and your profits are going to increase, it just doesn't happen. Because people again, we go back to the top, if the leader is not showing vulnerability, and he's not showing he or she is not showing their true selves, then that does not encourage their employees to show their true selves. So if there's any kind of fear, so fear that I'm not doing a good enough job, I'm not working as hard as Mike over there at his desk, because now I'm playing ping pong, Oh, I can't do that. Because, you know, nobody else's, if there is that kind of feeling, then what you've just, you know, spend money on to kind of create this, you know, pretend environment that's positive, it kind of works against you. You know, and people still feel like they can't wait to get home and they don't care to stay after work, because they're not part of a team. They don't want to hang out with their colleagues, I can't wait to get home.

Lindsay 18:58
So that you said I lived for the weekends we live for, like our lives that really the things that are most important, our lives are typically not at work, but there are people who wake up excited, energized, motivated, they want to go to work because they get to make their best contribution. And one of the other things he talked about was here was variety. And variety is another key core human need when we have something it means we can't have people who stay in that black and white space because it is actually like we diminish the core things a human being needs to thrive. So if you're wondering what's happening here, like why fun brings in it allows you to feel significance allows you variety, and allows you to make a contribution. So those are three of the six core human beings. so freaking powerful.

Rebecca 19:42
Yeah. And I mean, like if people are wondering, you know, what's this big deal about fun? Well, think about this. You know, if you're a woman and you know, we're pregnant and you were worried about telling your boss that you're going to be having a baby and going on mat leave and now you're getting a cut and pay. Well, wouldn't it be fun if you could just bring your baby to work? Yeah, I know people out there go what that's a crazy idea. People are doing it CEOs are doing this and they're seeing huge benefits, not just for okay now mother at work Who's that who's see you know an industrial designer. Now, moms that work baby two, three-month-old babies are on her, you know, on our back or whatever and she's still working and able to do her stuff. As the baby gets a little bit older baby goes and is in a playpen. You know what, you know what happens in those environments, people in the office start signing up to have a baby break for 10 or 15 minutes so they can play with a child. This enlightens everybody in the office Not only that, you get your stakeholders walking into the offices, you get you, your clients walk into the offices, now there's a child there, and everyone's a little bit like, okay, what's going on here what's going on, but you know, the languages are cleaner, the, there's a lot more smiling, you know, you take another example, take a board room of say, you know, white men who are used to doing businesses, this the way that they've always done it, we'll give them a set of crayons, and take away all their pens. And now make your notes. Now, this is fun, this puts smiles on people's faces. And there is a science to this, that when people are happy, they are more productive, and they are more creative because the side of their brain that is on like pause because they're in such a driven like a gotta get this done profit, profit profit mode, they are actually not creative and innovative. So if you want your company to grow and thrive, and, and yeah, have increased, profits start having more fun. And you'll see the difference because people will want to come to work, people will start feeling like these are your friends you're going to work with these are people I'm working with not against, you know, which has been kind of like, Oh, I have to go to work. And Sally and sales is such a blip. You know, and it's like, oh my god, okay, now how can you get to know Sally a little bit better? So that you actually see that you're not that different? How can we create environments and opportunities for these people to join together? And maybe it's like, a project outside of work, where maybe you get together and you guys will talk about how are we going to give back and people are going to come to the table with ideas, I guarantee it. Because almost everyone in your office goes home. And they probably have a creative project. What I have found Lindsay is that a huge majority of people who have been in corporate are either a musician, they're an artist, they paint on the weekends, you know, I don't know, they make hot air balloons or something, they do something different that they have always loved doing but somebody that probably their mother or father told them you could never have a career in that. And so they went into their corporate job. So if we could incorporate the loves of people's lives into work somehow, in creative ways. Geez, now you're talking about a place people want to go wherever they're going to be motivated and they're going to be not just motivated, they're going to be dedicated to your company. And there you know, they're in lies the whole idea of keeping your top talent for a longer period of time and not wasting What is it in America 30 billion, or I don't know the quote, I don't know, the stat off the top my head. That's a lot of money that's wasted in training people and anybody out there including myself, that's trained anyone knows it takes a ton of time. And if you keep losing people, you're losing a lot of money.

Lindsay 23:36
Yeah, to the tune of at a professional higher level $50,000 is the average call average. Oh, yeah. Yeah, lose one person $50,000. And it becomes a C to rest the rest of your team because they have taken on the additional workload and then bringing on someone new also increases workload. So it's a terribly it's not a virtuous cycle. And if you can, right now in the world for talent, because it really is. There are ways to do so I love this. Rebecca, I feel like I want to continue this conversation with you on another podcast because so much here. There's so much to say that one like one last parting thought you would like to leave with our audience.

Rebecca 24:14
Like you said, there are so many, so many things. So I guess I would just say it takes one to start making these changes. If you're it doesn't matter which level you're at. You could be a CEO listening to this right now a leader in the making somebody wants to make a change and who wishes and wants their workplace to be better. But you could also be somebody who was just newly hired, and you're bringing in new ideas and you're sitting there going, Yeah, this is totally me. I'm always getting like shut down or I don't feel like I don't feel safe in this environment to say anything. It starts with you. And I have been one of those people my entire life that speaks up. So speak up. And I guess Lindsay and I are here to Stand behind you in speaking up for something different. Because the more people that say something, the more change that will begin to happen and this will become more mainstream that work is actually no not so bad.

Lindsay 25:15
I love that. Thank you so much, Rebecca. And if somebody wants to find out more from you, where can they go?

Rebecca 25:21
My website if you can manage to spell my last name is Rebecca Binnendyk dot com. Yeah, there's lots of information on there and all my links are there. That's probably the best place I am on Facebook as well. But I'd say probably more on my website and feel free to get in touch anytime.

Lindsay 25:37
Thank you so much for being under days incredibly illuminating. And I'm sure we'll have a part two on this or maybe even more.

Rebecca 25:44
Thank you so much, Lindsay, for having me. You know, even Lindsay and I, we've just, you know, had some great talks about this. And I also encourage you to find somebody that is like-minded, surround yourself with like-minded thinkers. And from that place, you can only go high you can only fly from there. So thanks, Lindsay, for having me. Thank you so much.