Episode #64 | America "After Nationalism" (Samuel Goldman)

Foreign Policy ProvCast

Samuel Goldman (PhD, Harvard) talks about his latest book, After Nationalism: Being American in an Age of Division, with Mark Melton, who recently reviewed it in National Review. Even though some on the right have argued that the United States needs to return to a strong common national identity to survive, Goldman argues that America has normally not had this type of cohesion for most of its history. Instead, the Second World War and Cold War created a brief period when creedal nationalism became the dominant vision, but after a couple of decades this vision began to fracture. During the conversation, Goldman explains the history of America’s national identities by focusing on three that are present today—covenantal, crucible, and creedal—and why all three failed. He and Melton also cover how times of war allowed the government to coerce Americans into adopting a single cohesive identity. For instance, despite being an American born in Missouri, Reinhold Niebuhr’s formal education was fully in German until he began his Master’s degree at Yale Divinity School. But after the First World War this type of culture could not endure. (Niebuhr’s undergraduate college in Illinois did not print a catalog in English until 1917.) Goldman responds to critics of the book who say America must revive an Anglo-American or Anglo-Protestant vision (a type of covenantal nationalism) to have a future. Others who want to revive a common national identity also say identity politics is one of the greatest threats to America, which Goldman addresses. Many have also argued that the United States needs to teach history better to prevent disunity, including six former education secretaries who signed a Wall Street Journal op-ed in March 2021. Goldman explains why this type of program will fail just as other similar attempts have failed. According to him, understanding history can only tell Americans who they were, not who they are. Instead of promoting a common national identity, Goldman supports increased localism and federalism, which he describes further. Goldman is an associate professor of political science at George Washington University, and Mark Melton is managing editor of Providence. A rough transcript is forthcoming, which will be available here: https://providencemag.com/podcast/foreign-policy-provcast-ep-64-america-after-nationalism-samuel-goldman-podcast/ To purchase After Nationalism, click here: https://www.amazon.com/Nationalism-Radical-Conservatisms-Samuel-Goldman/dp/0812251644 To read Melton’s review in National Review, click here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/06/book-review-after-nationalism-sympathy-for-nationalists-but-little-hope/ Featured Image: A flag over the Vicksburg Bridge (carrying I-20) and the Old Vicksburg Bridge, which cross the Mississippi River in Mark Melton’s hometown. Source: Unsplash.