Claudio Lessa - Twitter vs. Tyranny: Elon Musk and Brazil's Information War

Hearts of Oak Podcast

In this compelling episode of Hearts of Oak, we sit down with Claudio Lessa, a journalist with over four decades of experience, to explore the complex landscape of Brazilian politics and media freedom. Claudio shares his journey from Brazil to the U.S. and his return, only to face political persecution. He discusses the temporary freedom during Bolsonaro's presidency, the contentious handling of the pandemic, and the alleged election irregularities leading to Lula's controversial return to power. Dive into the discussion on severe media censorship, the role of social platforms like X in resisting government overreach, and the ongoing struggle for democracy in Brazil. This is an essential listen for insights into the fight for truth in a climate of suppression.

Claudio Lessa, a multifaceted personality with a rich tapestry of experiences, was born in 1955 in the vibrant city of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. His life, split evenly between Brazil and the United States, has been a journey marked by a relentless pursuit of diverse passions and professional endeavours.
Lessa's career in journalism spans several decades, where he has made significant contributions across various media platforms. He has worked with multiple television networks, bringing stories to life with his distinctive flair. His writing, featured in numerous newspapers, magazines, and online platforms, showcases his insightful commentary and provocative style. Lessa's work as a blogger further highlights his commitment to engaging with contemporary issues, often stirring the pot with his observations and analyses.
Beyond journalism, Claudio Lessa is an accomplished singer-songwriter. His musical talents led to the creation of a recorded CD, reflecting his deep connection with Brazilian music and culture, while also exploring universal themes through his songs.
His adventurous spirit also led him into the high-speed world of auto racing. As a member of the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA), Lessa indulged his love for speed and competition, adding another layer to his already diverse persona.
Described as a provocateur and a sometimes "pain-in-the-ass," Lessa is known for his candidness and his ability to find humour in almost any situation, which has endeared him to many while challenging the status quo. This characteristic has made him not just a journalist or a musician, but a cultural figure who provokes thought, discussion, and often, laughter.
Claudio Lessa's life story is one of crossing boundaries, both literal and metaphorical, between countries, careers, and personal interests. His ability to excel in journalism, music, and racing, while maintaining a sharp wit and a critical eye, makes him a unique figure in both the Brazilian and American cultural landscapes.

Connect with Claudio...
𝕏 @ClaudioLessa x.com/ClaudioLessa
GETTR @CLNews gettr.com/user/clnews
YOUTUBE @ACLNews8 youtube.com/@ACLNews8

Interview recorded 20.9.24

Connect with Hearts of Oak...
𝕏 @HeartsofOakUK x.com/HeartsofOakUK
WEBSITE heartsofoak.org/
PODCASTS heartsofoak.podbean.com/
SOCIAL MEDIA heartsofoak.org/connect/
SHOP heartsofoak.org/shop/

*Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast.

Check out his art theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com and follow him on 𝕏 x.com/TheBoschFawstin

Transcript

(Hearts of Oak)

And hello, Hearts of Oak.

I'm delighted to have a brand new guest with us today, going to discuss all things Brazil, regarding censorship and politics there, and it's Claudio Lessa.

Claudio, thank you so much for your time today.

Well, thank you, Peter.

Thank you for having me.

I'm delighted to join this live session here, and I'd like to tell you that I'm a journalist since 1976.

I've been working in Brazil for quite a while and then I moved to the United States in 1982 to work for the Voice of America and then I became a freelance journalist.

I worked for CBS.

I worked for many newspapers in Brazil and magazines and stuff.

And then I decided to go back to Brazil because I had some, you know, family problems to take care of there and I decided to you know try to spread the the everything that I had learned here in the United States about democracy and the importance of dialogue and discussion about everything openly.

But unfortunately, things didn't work out for me very well.

And I decided to come back, because I started being severely persecuted politically because when I started my own broadcast about three years ago.

All hell broke loose and I was you know, I suffered all sorts of Intimidations and threats and stuff.

I'm basically now I don't know if the the listeners and the viewers are familiar with the the so-called end of the world inquiry, It's the Brazilian Supreme Court under this proto-dictator that they have there, this bald guy that I don't pronounce his name, you know, because it's kind of contagious, you know.

But anyway, he decided to start this inquiry there that has been lasting for five years.

And I was included in there.

I was forced to go to the federal police and give explanations about my opinions, basically what I was writing on my newscast.

I have a newscast that goes on the air from Monday through Friday, every evening.

And I, you know, mix the news with a little bit of humour and a little bit of the comments and stuff.

But I'm just a newsman. You know, I'm just telling people what's happening and showing them what I think about it sometimes. And they didn't like it.

So, I was persecuted heavily.

And I said, well, it's enough.

Well let's get into all of that and for when you look at Brazil and anyone who's worked for Voice of America, fantastic.

So I can pigeonhole you kind of straight away.

That great and fantastic organization, but I mean in Brazil politically, do you want to to just explain because when Bolsonaro got in and he came in on a huge wave of popularity, was only there four years and then Lula was back in again after being president; what for two terms back 10, 12, years ago?

You had Dilma Rousseff, she was thrown out for whatever activities and then you had other people in for a short period of time.

But what what was that like from your point of view seeing Jair Bolsonaro coming in and being so vocal for common sense and on the right and for freedoms.

What were those four years like for you looking at it as a journalist?

Well Peter it was a a breath of fresh air basically, you know, After living there,

I got the whole Lula period and the bank robber period, too.

Dilma, she's a bank robber, a terrorist.

And I'm serious.

And when Bolsonaro came in, you know, it was a breath of fresh air.

You know, there was no more censorship. professorship.

He didn't prosecute any journalist whatsoever for whatever they, you know, if people told whatever they wanted to tell about him.

He didn't care.

You know, it's a free country.

Go ahead and whatever.

When it came to the issue of inoculations, it was right, you know, during that that presidency, that he got smacked with the inoculation fraud.

He said, well, he was kind of very candid.

He said, listen, I'm not taking it.

I don't want it. I don't think it's right.

But I'm importing this huge amount of vaccines here.

Whoever wants to take it, feel free to do it.

But the left was intent because they were joined by an international syndicate or whatever to force everything and create all sorts of trouble and all those masks and physical separation and whatever, you know, all that fraudulent aspect of the genocidal, you know, intent that they had.

And he just took on the same wave.

There were economic problems.

Brazil was under heavy pressure.

He had the best economy minister of the whole Republican Brazilian history.

His name is Paulo Guedes.

He was considered the best minister in the world. Sometimes, you know, he was awarded some, you know, thing about it.

And he rode that wave of pressure and made Brazil grow and produced surpluses after surpluses every time, economically speaking.

And what do you see now?

Well, what do you see now is, first of all, this man who is in charge right now of the government, you know, it was a fraudulent election.

It was rigged, completely rigged.

You know, proof is starting to appear, you know, little by little on social media with telephone calls and messages and stuff that's being unearthed, you know, about this whole thing.

What happened now?

We have a dictatorship.

The guy is a drunk man who doesn't, you know, he's not able to do anything.

Some people say he's already dead he was killed in November 5th, 2022 and there have been these people these look-alikes who've been filling in for him which is we cannot prove that but that's what they say.

What happened?

We have a judicial dictatorship.

The judicial ever since Bolsonaro was in power.

Well, they did two things.

First of all, they went to the military secretly and they said, can we smash this guy?

The military, well, no, no problem.

Go ahead.

So the military distanced themselves.

So what happened?

It's statistically proven.

Every week or 10 days, at least two instances where the Brazilian Supreme Court would create some sort of trouble regarding Bolsonaro's decisions or actions or whatever.

So, his life was a nightmare.

You know, his government, as far as being an executive, it was a nightmare. So, this happened for the four years.

And then they had the fraudulent elections.

Several things happened in front of everyone.

And I don't know.

Brazil is, for me, it's very disturbing, I think.

Because I don't like to live in a place where everybody pretends that nothing is happening, you know?

And that's what I felt. Because things were happening in front of our eyes.

You know, one of the so-called justice ministers, you know, a man, I mean, I'm not a man, but his name is Barroso, Luis Barroso.

He went to Congress once, and they were on the verge of voting the printed voting machines.

There's going to be a printer right next to the ballot, the electronic ballot box there that would do the following.

Following, you chose a number 28, and then the face of the candidate would appear on the screen.

And you said, well, yes, this is the candidate I want.

Well, before you press the confirm button to finish your choice, a piece of paper would come from a printer, isolated from you.

You could not touch it.

You could not get the paper or anything.

Right?

And you'd say, well, yeah, that's number 28 printed there.

So, I confirm that's 28.

Then you confirm and you leave and you voted for number 28.

Right now, what's happening is there's no printer.

There's no nothing.

So you go there, you choose 28.

The guy, the candidate 28 appears and you say, well, yeah, confirm.

Confirm, the machine will select 33 for you.

And nobody knows.

Nobody will ever know.

There's no way of auditing this thing.

So, this vote was crucial to make sure that the elections would be clean.

This guy crosses the street from the Supreme Court, goes to Congress, and forces the political leaders to change representatives who were voting for the audited vote like this with the printer system and stuff, to change the congressman to people who would vote against it. And then he killed it. This is a crime.

It's written on the Constitution.

And it's written since 1950.

It's a crime of responsibility. He had to be impeached because he committed a crime.

Nothing happened, you know, and so on and so forth.

And then comes along this bald guy, Mr. Alexandre de Moraes.

This guy is a disgrace. grace.

I mean, I've been, ever since August 2022, way before the elections, I used to do some commentary for some people, and I would say, listen, I am not a psychologist.

I'm not a doctor.

I'm not nothing like that. But from my observations, I believe this guy is a psychopath. You know, his actions are completely, you know.

Contrary to common sense or or reasonability or whatever you know the he just, he just, throws it and and everybody gets really afraid and stuff I can tell you right now, because I'm writing my my my newscast for today and I just got the news that says he decided to find X, which is suspended in Brazil right now under his censorship thing, he decided to find them five million Reais because, you know, a few days ago, X was suspended and they changed the provider.

They started using Cloudflare.

And for some reason, X came back on the air again for Brazilians.

And this guy was, you know, really, really mad.

And I'd like to know what kind of scale, what kind of table for fines he has.

You know, he just throws, you know, $5 million, $100,000, $10,000 every day, every 24 hours.

You have two hours to do this.

It's kind of crazy.

And nobody says anything.

Well, I want to delve into that.

But one thing I want to say is, for me, as a Brit, for a lot of our U.S. viewers who may be thinking Brazil, I mean, who cares?

But Brazil is 50% of the population of South America.

And when you look at actually the country that has a good leader, you're looking at Argentina. But that's like a quarter the size.

And Brazil is not a Paraguay or Uruguay or Bolivia.

It is a huge country in size and in population, and therefore it affects things massively.

Sol, I think that's why what's happening in Brazil is really concerning.

But, I mean, was it Bolsonaro?

Was it because, I mean, his bravery, his boldness on going up against the pharmaceutical industry and saying, I'm not having this jab, no way.

That set him apart from nearly every other world leader.

Was that the main reason why he was so targeted and why they couldn't let him?

Because if you've got a president that is against Big Pharma, then there's a problem because Big Pharma want to make a lot of money.

And he was being a bulwark, a stop to that.

But was that the reason why he basically couldn't be allowed to stay because of that?

Or was it other issues also?

Peter, this was one big chunk of the problem.

But that was not the entire problem.

That was not the basic problem.

Bolsonaro, first of all, he comes from the military ranks.

The military have been discredited in Brazil ever since the end of the the you know the the authoritarian period that ended in 1985 I guess or whatever when they had the amnesty and they decided to leave all these crooks come back allow these crooks to come back to Brazil and these communism, all that stuff, and they were assured by the amnesty, was a general and unrestricted amnesty, as it was called at that time, they would not ever be touched.

And what I mean is, during the military regime that lasted from 64 until 85, there were instances where both sides practiced, you know, bad things in terms of violence and killing and everything.

They killed people.

The military also killed people.

The military also tortured people just like the leftists did.

And there's ample proof of that on both sides.

But then when they came back, they said, no, we're not going to be touched anymore.

So, we can do whatever you want, because nobody's going to touch us.

And that's what happened.

And the military got totally discredited.

They went back and, you know, they reaffirmed their lack of credit when the electoral fraud in 2022 happened.

Millions of Literally millions of Brazilians went to the gates of all the military installations all over Brazil, asking them, please do something, you know, have these people sit down and do something about it.

You know, we cannot accept something like this.

Nothing happened.

What was the media?

And people went to jail because of that, you know.

And that is totally unacceptable, totally unacceptable.

How did the media play into it?

Are the media fully controlled? Is there free media?

Obviously, that's why they fear Elon Musk.

No, exactly.

Exactly.

No, no.

The media in Brazil is totally controlled by the left.

Totally, totally, totally controlled by the left.

So, you had this 24 hours, seven days a week, 30 days per month, 365 days a year of people writing and saying and broadcasting, you know, things that were untrue about Bolsonaro and forcing and creating this narrative of lies and lies and lies.

You know, but Bolsonaro allowed them to do this.

He kept telling them his side and they kept telling him their side.

It was a very bad situation in terms of the attempt of controlling the situation. Nobody knew who was going to control the situation.

Bolsonaro, on one hand, I believe, you know, although I am convinced that he was the best president that we had in our Republican history ever since Mr. Fonseca started it way, way back.

But I believe he...

You know, as a human being, was, you know, prone to make mistakes or to overlook whatever.

So, one of the things that I really, you know, miss that he should have done is every, you know, every couple of weeks or every week, basically, he went to the gates of the Alvorada Palace, and he met with the supporters there and stuff.

It was very friendly.

And then he said, well, I'm playing within the four lines, just like he was in a field, you know?

But if my adversaries want to play everything, you know, the go for all or whatever, I'm able to do the same thing too.

He never did.

And it was very clear that these people were not playing or observing the four lines or they were just, you know, screwing everything that they could in order to, you know, to demolish his presidency.

And on top of that, there was the rigged election, the fraudulent process that was horrible, and nobody did anything.

You know, the military were requested to supervise the, you know, part of the election when they were talking about computers, the ballot boxes, the electronic ballot boxes, they had, you know, to insert this, you know, program or whatever is in the software in there.

The military was very, very much capable of doing it and catching all the malign things that were being done to the software.

They were there. They didn't do anything.

They didn't complain.

There was a request later to get the, there's a term in computing that's called for the, it's the basic data that's in a computer.

They requested that thing.

Mr. Alexandre de Moraes said, no, I'm not going to give it.

And that was it.

That was it.

And the dance followed.

Everybody kept watching, you know, football and the soap operas and going to the beach and singing songs and whatever.

That's it.

This is what bothers me very deeply about Brazil.

You know, nobody takes action on something. And now even Bolsonaro is a little bit disappointing because he was the most hurt in all this process.

He was guaranteed a re-election because everybody is with him up to this date.

What does he say now?

You know, a few months ago, I listened to this. Oh, no.

2022 is a turn page.

We don't have to worry about it anymore.

What?

I mean, what does that mean if millions of people were in front of military installations?

Everybody is suffering from the economy.

You know, the economy in Brazil is melting right now.

Deficits on top of deficits you know all sorts of wrong-doings are being made all over the place and it's turned page, you don't get some people and decide why are you afraid of being called a dictator because the international media are going to call: oh, you see, he went and and he crushed the the the democratically elected government blah blah blah blah.

I don't know.

I mean, or is it because his wife is an evangelical woman and decided, oh, we have to turn the other face and, you know, not do anything.

These people, you know, God will punish them, but we will have to.

I don't know what's going on in his head, but Brazil is melting, you know, minute by minute, and nobody does anything.

Well, I'll end discussing kind of the other side effects of having Lulu in charge, but on the issue of censorship, and especially that Elon Musk and Twitter X are in the crosshairs of the government, how did that come about?

Why is Elon Musk suddenly the enemy of the Brazilian government?

Well, Peter, Elon Musk became an enemy of the Brazilian government because he bought X.

While X was under the other, you know, ownership, he was acting just like Facebook and Instagram and everything.

I was cut from Instagram overnight.

I was cut from Vimeo overnight.

I was caught from, there was one in France that I forgot the name, overnight.

And just because, why?

Because Mr. Alexandre de Moraes secretly decided to censor everybody who he does not like. And he issued these orders to these cronies that were totally afraid of saying anything or going against whatever he said.

And I'll give you a good example.

In 2022, I guess, Telegram was suspended in Brazil for several days, and then it returned afterwards.

Well, this Mr. de Moraes, this bald guy, this psychopath, he issued an order and published it everywhere.

All the newspapers saying, well, I'm suspending Telegram because of these nine reasons.

Well, six of the reasons had to do with a guy named Alan dos Santos, who lives here in the United States.

He's an exiled Brazilian journalist, too.

He was severely persecuted by, you know, the gang.

And...

Two other reasons were Bolsonaro, because Bolsonaro said this or that or whatever.

And the ninth reason was yours truly.

I didn't even know what was going on.

I was never told, not by the Supreme Court, not by Telegram, not by anybody.

There was a reason there.

I told Telegram to close Claudio Lessa's channel, and they didn't care about it.

Well, this was one of the reasons.

This is okay.

I mean, as far as censorship goes, that's how it works.

But the funny thing that I want to talk to you about is this.

On the six reasons about Alan DeSantis, he enumerated things there.

And one of the reasons was, I have ordered Telegram several times to talk to me about monetization of his channel, and Telegram never answered.

Well, I believe that a third-grade kid would know that Telegram does not monetize anyone.

So the thing is, why one of the cronies or the guys who are doing whatever they are doing there say, hey, Mr. Justice, please, you know, this one, it shouldn't be on the list because Telegram doesn't do it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

No, nobody said anything.

So, he showed everyone that he's arrogant, stupid, ignorant.

He doesn't know what he's talking about.

He just wants to be the big bully in front of the school, in the schoolyard.

That's what he's doing.

And to my amazement nobody does anything to stop this guy.

I mean I don't know.

Tell me the the this the individual who no one outside Brazil had heard of this that Elon Musk is basically going toe to toe with is he the head of the judicial system in Brazil?

This this guy this this bald head guy no he's not, his one of the 11 justices or so-called just nobody, no one there has been a justice before.

That's to make things worse.

But he's one of the 11, but since he's a bully, and he acts like a pseudo dictator or whatever.

Others are accomplices, others are timid, or they're afraid of going against them.

I don't know.

So he takes the front of the scene, and everybody stays looking.

For example, the situation there, Peter, is so bad. When there was the election, and, you know, these people are all together in the same bag.

They're all criminals. You know, one thing that happened, it was Mr. Barroso, who was the head of the electoral tribunal there, the electoral court, which is completely useless, very expensive.

And he was the guy in charge of that, but he's also a guy from the Supreme Court.

I have this recording with me, because I carried it for my own safety, you know.

He is in a Zoom meeting with the other 10.

He is in the middle of the screen, on the larger screen, and the other 10 are, you know, spread around him.

And he's saying the following lie. Listen, he is the president of the, you know, the utmost tribunal of, you know, taking care about elections in Brazil.

He says, you know, we cannot have at all this, you know, audited elections, this piece of paper coming from the printer because the voter will get this paper and take it to the drug dealer or to the militia, whatever, to show him that he voted for whom the militia guy told him to do, whatever.

Peter, the printer is going to be isolated from the voter.

He has just visual contact with a piece of paper that's coming out of the thing.

Now, you imagine this guy in this level saying this kind of lie.

And the other 10 never, ever uttered a word. Never said, hey, Barroso, hold on.

Things don't work like that.

No, this is not correct.

No, no, just people stay there looking and looking and looking and listening.

So this is the way things are happening in Brazil.

I'm not happy with it, so I left.

Well, how difficult is it for journalists?

You've got Elon Musk, and of course, that is the alternative media.

But yet you've got journalists like yourself.

It's bread and butter, more legacy.

That's your life.

What is it like?

You, I'm sure, talk to colleagues, friends, family back in Brazil.

How difficult is it to be a journalist that seeks truth and seeks to expose lies?

Well, Peter, it's basically an impossible task.

That's why I left Brazil, you know, after a while, after being persecuted in my work at the House of Representatives and outside my work, I came to the conclusion, my family, listen, one of these days, federal police is going to come here at six in the morning, going to arrest me.

I'm going to lose my job. I'm going to be killed, maybe.

I don't know.

So before that kind of thing, you know, happens, I might as well, you know, look for some other way of living and being able to live in peace and, you know, be able to say whatever I want to say without the risk of being punished so stupidly by these people, you know.

But the others who are there, they are all accomplices of this gang that's in power right now, this criminal gang that's in power right now, or they're totally afraid.

They're totally scared.

They don't say anything.

They just, you know, keep to themselves and do whatever, you know, and survive silently, you know.

Tell me what it's like. What else has happened under Lula?

Bolsonaro would seem to be he was more free market, Marcus wanted to encourage people to actually grow the economy, less state subsidies, more incentives to work.

The normal kind of what you have on the right that now Miele is trying to do in Argentina, which really has suffered economic decimation, I think, over decades.

But what's the economic situation like under Lula?

The economic situation under Lula is a tragedy.

We have, after Paulo Guedes, who was the best, as I said, the best minister of the economy in the whole Republican area, we have a basically illiterate man.

His name is Haddad, and I called him an Alfadad, like he was an illiterate man, you know, because in Brazil, the name illiterate, you say an alfabeto.

You don't, you know, so I changed the names and did this.

So this guy, he said it on television one day that he didn't understand diddly about economy.

And he took a three month course about the subject with his friends. And he was cheating on the test that was given, getting answers from his friends to fill the things there.

And that's the guy who is in charge of the economy.

So from there, you can see what's going on.

Now, let's go back a little bit.

Bolsonaro, well, way, way back.

Lula, a long time ago, said, well, I'm going to do the transposition of the San Francisco River to get water to the Northeast and da, da, da.

Good.

Everybody was hopeful that that thing would happen because the dry situation and the drought situation in the Northeast of Brazil is historical, terrible, and everything.

Nothing happened.

When Bolsonaro came in, Bolsonaro said, well, we're going to do the transposition. And he did it. Indeed, he did it.

The water went to the Northeast, to all the states in there and everything, all the ramifications and stuff.

Everything was working just fine.

The Northeasians were happy with that.

Then this guy came back and you can see videos on on maybe YouTube or whatever I got many from social media and stuff trucks full of dirt you know putting that dirt on the channels to stop the water.

They closed all the.

You know.

The valves and stuff.

And the water ended.

Why?

Because there is a mafia in the northeast.

Of trucks that carry water.

You know.

And distribute this water.

And these trucks are paid.

You know, dearly for this water.

And this is controlled by politicians of, you know, the the group of this of this guy.

So he killed everything a bridge in in in the north in the northern region of Brazil and, They made this huge bridge because what was happening at that time, every time you had a car or a truck and you had to go to the other side of the river, you had to pay like, you know, 200 Reais or 300 Reais and wait hours and hours for the, you know.

Well, the then minister Tarcisio Freitas, you know, built a huge bridge, ended up the problem.

The bridge is not working.

Now the ship, you know, you have to take the boat to cross the river again.

And the bridge is right there.

You can see it.

You can see this on social media that the videos are there.

I'm not making this up.

So this is how it is working now in Brazil.

That's what's happening.

This is a tragedy.

And, you know, nobody knows what to do because, because everybody's more concerned with, you know, soap operas, soccer. I don't know.

It's the same the world over.

Where does Lula's support come from?

You mentioned about Bolsonaro's wife being an evangelical Christian.

And you kind of, as a Christian and being to Brazil before to visit churches, and you hear about the large churches in Brazil, as you do in Colombia, be other parts of Almeria, but Brazil is known for having a large evangelical population.

How does kind of the voter breakdown work?

And how did, apart from fraudulent, yes, and I'm, except as I accept on the 2020 election, fraudulent also, but where does the kind of support base for Lula come?

Well, Peter, that's a very, very good question.

That's a $6 million question like they had in those days.

Because you see today, if Lula goes on the street by himself, he's going to be killed.

I'm not wishing that.

I'm just saying, stating as a fact, people hate him, despise him.

You know, he cannot go anywhere.

And if he tries any political whatever he wants to do, nobody shows up.

And this is also on social media everywhere.

Now, if you have Bolsonaro, oh, Bolsonaro landed here and he's going to eat a pizza at whatever.

The whole city goes there to see Bolsonaro and take pictures with him and stuff.

What does that mean?

It means that Bolsonaro has the support and the preference of the people.

So, what happened was a fraudulent process, a rigged election, and the support came from several sides interested in making Brazil a leftist country.

And then you can think of, you know, there is a guy who worked with the Venezuelan government.

He was arrested in Spain, and I believe he was sent to the United States.

His nickname was El Polio, a general there. He said that he has all the paperwork proving that he sent millions and millions and millions of Dollars to the Workers' Party, which is the criminal gang, you know, using a fantasy of a political party.

And that's where this Lula guy is in bed with.

This is a federal crime.

And if that is proven, if that is shown, this Workers' Party has to be cancelled and everything has to be voided and nullified.

I don't know.

I mean, there's this George Soros here in the United States.

I mean, these people, they are all connected.

You know, these people are all together working in the shadows and stuff.

Stuff and but in the practical terms what you can see is this guy as a president does not exist even no was when when you talk about executive decisions who are taking the executive decisions?

The judiciary, by this bald guy who decides to fine people to do this And they decide, oh, we have to work about the drought and the fire.

You know, the guy who was supposed to be doing this is not doing anything.

He's dead. I don't drunk or fooling around with this caretaker or going around visiting other countries or whatever.

I don't know what he's doing.

It is uncanny how Brazil resembles the U.S. in terms of what has happened. Exactly.

Can I finish off by, again, ending with the censorship side?

I think I'd read, well, Elon Musk said they had to close their office in Brazil.

Then there was talk of a daily fine. If you used Twitter, then that seemed to be removed. People obviously can use VPNs.

You can access Twitter or X just on X.com. It doesn't have to be the app.

But kind of there is a game being played here, a very dangerous game, and that's to do with people's access to information.

But what's the current situation?

Are there fines that people use it?

And how do people get around that?

Well, Peter, the thing is, this psychopath, he decided that there would be a 50,000 Reais fine, a daily fine for anyone who was caught using VPN to reach X, the platform.

The problem is this amount, which is equivalent to about $8,000.

The problem is people who understand about computers much more than I do say that it's impossible for you to be caught using VPN because the very basic philosophy and nature of the VPN is exactly to make you invisible.

You know, you start to being, for example, when I wanted, I was living in Brazil sometime, you know, a few years ago, I wanted to try to get a Mac Pro, and I wanted to know more about it.

So I tried getting into Apple and chatting with the lady.

No, no, you cannot do that because you're outside the United States, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Oh, yeah?

Right.

I got into VPN.

I chatted with the lady.

I got all the information that I needed.

Thank you very much.

Period.

Same thing here.

You know, you cannot be caught using that.

So, that's the very bully, you know, proposition that this guy has.

He's always threatening.

He's always intimidating.

He's always, you know, that's how he works.

So, this is what's going on.

Now, the X was suspended. It's not working right now.

For a brief, maybe 24-hour period, it came back because they changed the Cloudflare thing came back, but they already, Cloudflare already isolated their IPs or whatever, and X is already off the air in Brazil again.

Even so, as I told you in the beginning, this guy, the psychopath, he decided to fine X for 5 million Reais because of these 24 hours where X was briefly on the waves again and who decides what kind of money, what kind of fine, how is it done?

Why is it done?

Nobody knows.

The guy just wakes up in the morning, I'm gonna fine and that's it.

There must anger sorry just facial there must be anger in Brazil because, I mean in most countries X is the number one downloaded app and people rely on that to connect with each other exactly what's happening so there must be a lot of anger.

I mean if you ban it's like banning the most popular soap opera or TV program in a country that's going to come back and in a similar way.

I can't imagine this is going to gain Lula the much support.

No, the thing is, Peter, going back to the same thing that I told you, if in Brazil you have a soccer game, Flamengo and Corinthians, you know, two very popular teams in Brazil, and something happened there, the referee was, you know, stealing from one side or whatever, well, there's going to be trouble all over the place.

People are going to be wrecking whatever they find in front of them, Metro buses and attacking people and stuff.

Because anger is genuine.

Now, if this psychopath does something like that, people get angry.

They don't say anything.

They don't.

It's very weird.

I can't understand why, you know.

And these things bother me very, very much.

So I said, well, I have to live my life somewhere else.

Although I care deeply for Brazil, I want to help fix that situation.

I have my own ideas, and many of them I should not be disclosing them here.

But, you know, live like this, you know, swallowing frogs every day.

I don't think that's the way to live, you know.

You're 100%.

Claudio, I really do appreciate you coming on. Obviously, people can follow you on X-Twitter at Claudio Lessa. It's there on the screen.

The links are all below.

And I know the world watched Brazil closely during Bolsonaro's time.

And the focus has been back on Brazil because of this censorship.

So it is an issue which massively concerns all of us, especially because of the size and influence of Brazil. But thank you so much for giving us your time and explaining a little bit of what's happening in Brazil.

Okay, Peter, thank you so much. And if I may, I would like to suggest the viewers to look for me on YouTube, which is @A-C-L-N, oh wait a minute it's @ACLN8 That's basically it.

Okay.

I will put that link in the description so people can just click on that.

ACLN, which is News 8.

The N followed by EWS. ACLN EWS 8. I'm sorry for the confusion, but that's a new channel that I started.

And the other one that I had, like 300,000 people has been cut off from monetization.

So I had to try something else.

As we all try and get around that, but make sure the links will be in the description, as we always put in the description, whether you're watching or listening, a list of all the links for all our guests.

I appreciate that.

You can always find it there.

But Claudio, appreciate your time. It's always good to have someone on brand new.

Get to meet them for the first time.

So, thanks for give us your time today.

Thank you so much, it was an honour, it was a pleasure.

And I appreciate people will get to know a little bit more about Brazil by watching this

Thank you