MMT50 - 220

Meeting Malkmus - a Pavement podcast

This week on the Pavement Top 50 Countdown, jD is joined by Jessica from Ann Arbor to reveal track 20 and discuss her Pavement origin story.

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. Today, we're talking all about number 21, Cut Your Hair. Russell, talk to me about your relationship with this song. I love this song for a few reasons. One, I think because it's ubiquitous. And when I talk about pavement to the rest of the free world, people are like, I don't remember that band. And if I say cut your hair, people are like, yeah, I remember that. Hey, this is Westy from the.

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[0:41] Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown. hey it's jd here back for another episode of the top 50 countdown for seminal indie rock band, pavement week over week we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots i then tabulated the results using an abacus and speed, just speed how will your favorite song fare in the rankings well you'll have to tune in to find out So there's that. This week I'm joined by Pavement superfan Jessica from Ann Arbor. Jessica, how the fuck are you doing? Super fucking good. I love it. I love it. This is exciting. When people fire back an F shot at me, that's like my favorite thing. It's validation to a degree. I was wondering if you were going to say like, hey, motherfucker, since I heard that maybe you haven't had a lot of ladies yet. I haven't. I said that to, I will promise I will say that in the future. Us ladies can be motherfuckers too. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's get right into it, Jessica from Ann Arbor. Let's hear your Pavement Origins story. Okay. She's opening a tome right now, folks. I know, I didn't want to go back into childhood, but it probably is high school-ish. Okay.

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[2:11] So that would be late 80s, early 90s. And I lived in Michigan, which I do again. And I liked a lot of like alternative music, but it was kind of hard to find out about it. Right. Back in the day before the internets. um so one way was i read a lot of like british music magazines like enemy and melody maker um and i would read little tidbits which comes into the first time i met pavement so um.

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[2:53] Oh, and I loved R.E.M. That was like my number one, probably, favorite band. I like the Replacements and a lot of British shoegazy bands. But the week after high school, my best friend and I decided to move to Athens, Georgia. And we were 17. And we just picked up and left. And we ended up living across the street from Michael Stipe. That's pretty fucking cool. That was like a dream come true. We were 17 for a while.

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[3:24] So it was like this Disney world for music lovers because there were so many cool bands. But it was a little bit hard to get into stuff like bars and things the first few months. But we met a lot of people and that helped. And then we turned 18 and then we could get into more things. things but there was like cool bands playing for four dollars like five or six nights a week it was really cool we go dancing a lot and stuff um but we had tickets to go see u2 that we bought in michigan before we left so we went back for that but then we had to drive back, because we heard pavement was playing at the 40 watt in essence really this was in 92 okay so we went to the u2 show which was pretty awesome and um wayne from uh no guards from wayne's world was like satellite linked into that show and played drums for something on mtv, So that was a random place to be. But we had to drive back to Athens, and it was like 12 or 14 hours. And we went like straight to the show.

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[4:42] And it was crazy and wild and sweaty. And Gary is a band. And he was doing handstands and headstands and hanging from the rafters. And it has since been put on YouTube. So now I can watch my 17-year-old self's view of watching them. But we really wanted to talk to them because we read in Enemy or Melody Maker or that they were going to be on 90210, Beverly Hills 90210, but that they, Stephen got in a fist fight with one of the guys, one of the actors. Oh, my gosh. And so before I even heard what they sounded like, I was like, I like these guys. They beat up somebody on 90210. So that was the first thing I asked them. And it was a rumor that Scott started about Stephen. than, I think, just to fuck with the UK press or something. Which sounded, that was a pretty cool thing, too. And, yeah, that was an awesome show.

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[5:52] And, yeah, I was hooked. I think that summer before that, so right after high school, is I think I got Slandered Enchanted was the first thing I heard. You got that in real time, basically. I think so because we volunteered to work for this local free magazine to review bands, and they gave us a lot of free stuff. And I think that that's where we got that. I don't know if we bought it or not.

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[6:28] And then I moved back to Michigan. and i had we went to high school with jim but we weren't really friends but then we worked at a store together and then we somehow started talking found out we liked a lot of the same music, and then that's jen will be coming up on a future episode just so you know, crazy jen and she's like the super fan uber fan i'm like a robin to a batman i would think because she worked at a super cool record store and so she had all the seven inches before, and cool promo things and she knew like you know label owners and promoters and people who ran clubs and all kinds of stuff so even at you know she was a year older than me so we're still like you know well 18 19 year olds and um.

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[7:27] Oh, she had the inside track. So she would like make me tapes of all her cool seven inches. So I had like, you know, the peel sessions and we had all these weird bootlegs. And then I think I went to England the year before that, but then I went again and got a lot of weird bootlegs, including some pavement ones.

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[7:54] And um then we went to see them together um and she is better remembering this so she had to kind of fill me in we saw them in chicago and we've gone all over the place to see them we've gone on lots of road trips because they're very important to us yeah and um but chicago is was only about four hours away and um um we also somewhere in there i think she she wanted to remind me and i guess i'm filling in some gaps that we um we wrote them some weird fan letters, somewhere in here somewhere in like 93 or 94 which i used to do with a lot of bands and i became friends with a lot of bands from writing really weird fan letters and sending really strange presence um we would just like really exaggerate things like she says that we found a danzig fanzine or something and we just changed the words around to something but we would just pretend we were like insane for them like we would say that we would, crawl a hundred miles over broken glass just to smell their shadows.

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[9:11] Knows just like really over the top weird stuff um we weren't um obviously serious um and we would just put weird toys and um gadgets and odd things and just send gift boxes to bands we liked and it always made an impression um so yeah um it's a good icebreaker if you're shy too. Jen always thinks that I was better at talking to people in bands, but I'm super duper duper duper shy either. I have to overcome like being terrified. But if you have like a funky present or something silly to do or say, then it makes it easier. And they always enjoyed that. And I think that first time we gave them some weird thing we got from a truck stop was a license plate with a Confederate flag on it, which I'm cringing at now, and it said, Ass Kickin' Southern Rock. And Westy put it on his drum kit, and that made us excited.

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[10:22] And then we, I think we saw him in Detroit like the next day or the next week or something. And they let us go to the sound check, and that was very exciting. And yeah, we always tried to be like in the front row, laughing and screaming and dancing. And it was very fun. And um they they gave us cool things too like one time they gave us some stephen keen paintings that were like left over from something um really.

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[11:01] We got some cool stuff um and then once we got through with like kind of like we you know gush a little bit about what songs we liked or um stuff then they would we would just like kind of act like regular people with them and we'd like go out to dinner with them or go walking around with them and it was pretty cool i bet holy crap that's fucking dynamite, it was groovy those were the salad days we made them last for a few years too, talk to me about that after that refreshing sip of water i hope it's not moonshine it's uh just Just agua. I'll try not to slurp too much in the microphone. Let's see. I had to write down some of these things because I have these big blank spaces.

Track 3:

[11:56] So let's see. And I'm blind because I'm old now. I'm almost 50. Me too. And let's see. Okay. Okay. I had to get some help with Jen and the internet. All right, so let's see. Then we saw him in Detroit. Oh, apparently they did two shows, an early show and a late show. That was in 94.

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[12:21] So we saw him in May and October. So at this point, we'd seen him like five or six times. Then we went to see him in Cincinnati.

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[12:32] And I'm trying to think. We went to this, like, we would just go to the dirtiest, nastiest places that were like out in the middle of nowhere. We could have got killed and we were in jen's like old subaru that backfired all the time and pretty sure we got a flat tire once um and it was mostly like big scary drunk guys at these shows and then it was just us little girl um but um oh i know we made shirts for them i think, i don't know if jen has or will talked about but she wanted me to tell you we made these um homemade shirts and they were on um baseball kind of shirts with like you know three-quarter sleeves they were green they're very kind of 70s retro and um our old gym teacher had a t-shirt shop so we um would go and just make weird collages and then print them out into iron-ons and then he put them on and then we do lettering and i would like sew on sequins stuff and so like yeah they were very 70s looking like they would say like you know pavement rules or pavement is number one and they would have some like album art on it or some pictures of them and or just random stuff and they really liked those and i think they signed our shirts we wore them a couple times and scott really liked him so we made him one.

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[13:59] And, um, there's a picture of us wearing ours in the, um, in the pavement documentary. Oh, really? In slow century? Yeah. Yeah. It's the back of us though. Cause I think, I think, I think Scott took that picture and owned it, but we had our own pictures of our faces, which we still have. Jen has most of them.

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[14:24] Um, but yeah, I made one for, well, we both made it for Scott, but yeah. Yeah, she was, I sewed on like a million like individual sequins on part of his shirt. And he liked that one a lot. And we would still, we'd give him weird presents too. There were these cool stores. There's one in Cincinnati and one in Chicago. They were called Big Fun and Uncle Fun. And they had like really weird retro toys and just weird stuff from Europe. Up like we got these really tiny harmonicas that were the box had made in occupied japan they were so tiny or and we just give them like spark guns or toys or trading cards or just weird stuff that we could find um and then you know they started knowing us every time we'd show up they'd be like hey i'm here um and that was kind of cool because then we'd know like the the sound guys and the tour managers too. So even if it was somewhere, cause I went to see him in England quite a few times. Oh, that was, so yeah, I lived in England for a couple of years in London. Um, and, um, saw him there and that was very different, you know, and then I saw them as they got bigger and bigger cause we saw them in pretty little clubs and then like bigger clubs and some theaters and stuff.

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[15:51] Um, and, But it would be weird, because sometimes in London, there's other people in big, fancy bands back there, backstage.

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[16:01] And I would just kind of sit quietly and be like, this is exciting. And for some reason, this isn't a very musical memory, but I remember I had been in England for a couple of years, and I missed a lot of American stuff. Yeah. Just like the, I don't know, I missed Taco Bell. And weird American stuff. And Bob had some Tic Tacs and for some reason I thought they were American and they were nowhere else. And so I got really excited and I was like, America Tic Tacs! And then we had a Tic Tac fight, um backstage um but.

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[16:42] Mostly we were just i would just kind of rock out love the shows we got very excited if they ever dedicated songs to us which they would every once in a while like you know if it was like our 10th show or our 10th year or something or our 20th show um we went a lot of road trips around america i'm going to see them and um yeah it was always an amazing time i bet they became your buddies yeah do you still talk yes um it's not quite as rock and roll now i play online scrabble with bob pretty much every day you do that's my most rock and roll mom story that i have that's pretty cool that's what nerdy we are that's very cool amazing he is he's like a sweet teddy bear they're all so nice yeah um i've had and i've had a lot of good talks with all of them and um so it's pretty cool when you um well they always I say, like, don't meet your heroes, but almost every band I've met has been awesome, and, um.

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[18:01] Uh i've known a lot of them for 10 20 30 years now that's very cool and so i didn't see him quite a bit during the breakup times i saw um steven and the jicks a couple times, in the early 2000s in preston school industry and that was fun because me and jen had kind of lost touch she had moved out west and i moved to england and it still wasn't really good internet days and so we were like connecting through pavement like scott would say hey yeah she's in colorado now and she has a chihuahua i would be like tell her i said hi if you see her before me.

Track 3:

[18:51] Um it was they're like um we kind of think of them as our big brothers i bet yeah i mean and the fact that you got to see them and their rise to prominence right like that's that's pretty cool, but i have to say you know since they never got like mega gigantic they never became like stuck-up assholes so no no yeah they've always been the same um and so i didn't see him like a of reunion-y stuff like in the like 2010s thing i think i might have been having a baby somewhere in that time gotcha and being a mom and being kind of boring um, so the last time i saw them um jen came out here and we saw him in detroit, oh that's cool at the masonic temple when was that 20 2022 or yeah yeah okay and so So that had been like basically 30 years of us going to see them off and on. And I got front row for that one, so I was very excited. And she had seen them earlier on in the tour, so she got to tell them that we were going to have our reunion. And it was pretty cool. They dedicated some songs to us, and that always makes you feel like a super fan.

Track 3:

[20:14] So yeah it was pretty groovy yeah I bet what's your what's your go-to record these days, um Jen and I were kind of talking about this I think I think, Probably Slanted and Crick and Rain are like my comfort records. Yeah. But it was when I was kind of a teenager, so there's kind of like an angsty, whole different world that I was taking them in. But it still feels like my comfort. Those are my comfort albums. albums um but i definitely have like favorites on all the um ones past then plus the cool thing was is we got to hear um songs that ended up coming out like years later earlier on and we had like different names for them because we didn't know what they were called or they would be on, a bootleg or something and yeah we had our own names for them that we had to unlearn.

Track 3:

[21:23] Um like i think we called grounded i think jen was saying we call it the sedan song okay just because he said something about the sedan in the parking lot maybe i don't know we just pick one word and be like oh that's that one um we may not have even known some earlier song names or we just make up our own we did a lot of singing to the um stuff we liked once where they were like singing back and forth, like call and response, like, yes. Uh, Circus 1762. We love singing that one in the car. So, um, so, um, I can definitely play those first two albums and all the like, uh, pre singles and stuff, um, solidly, but I kind of pick and choose what I listened to on the later albums. Okay. What I'm in the mood for. Yeah, I can see that. Well, what do you say we flip the script here and talk about song number 20? Are you down with that? I'm down with that. Well, let's do that. We'll hit that right after this break. Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening.

Track 2:

[22:34] And now on with a countdown. 20!

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[24:49] This week on the show, number 20 on the countdown. I'm pretty excited about this one. It's Blackout. This is the ninth song from Wowie Zowie to make the cut on the top 50. Pretty good showing for Wowie Zowie, I would say. What do you think, Jessica, from Ann Arbor? I think it is a very solid pavement song. Yeah. Like, I think it belongs in the top 20 to 30. Okay. Because, I don't know, it hits all the right pavement beats. It's kind of pretty. It's kind of dirty.

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[25:28] It's got weird lyrics. I'm not sure what it's about. No, it's really tough with us out there. Yes, I mean, sometimes it sounds so like, I don't know. You know, it's, what's it called when you're just saying words? I call it word salad. Word salad. That's what I call it. I'm so lyrical. Yeah, like just, yeah, because sometimes they don't make any sense. You just get little images. That's right. They give you vibes, right? Yeah, or moments. I definitely feel like they have this world and there's some characters in them. You know like loretta's in there somewhere right um um i don't know that one feels like kind of like i don't know a guy in high school or college or starting job or something he's kind of lost, i don't know if there's a real whole story there but i get little snippets right things stream of consciousness that's what i think i was thinking stream of consciousness yes Yes. Or he just gets little, you know, words that rhyme. Little phrases here and there. Or they just sound groovy. Is that the one that has...

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[26:49] I always thought it was Dirty Scots, but then I saw somewhere that maybe it was Sturdy Scots. And I always liked that because I like a lot of Scottish everything and Dirty Scots.

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[27:04] I did, I don't want to ramble on a thing. I just thought of a David Berman thing. Oh, sure. Dirty Scot. I never saw Silver Jews, but love, love, love them. But when I was living in London, David Berman did like a reading at this little dirty bar called Filthy McNasty's. I don't know why Dirty Scott's made me think of that. And that was the one and only time I saw and met him in person. He was very nice and shy. I had tickets for Purple Mountains, but obviously we know how that turned out. Yeah. Yeah, pretty terrible. Yeah.

Track 3:

[27:48] Back to the song for a moment. I'm sorry. No. What is your relationship with this song? Like, do you have any sort of relationship with this song? You mentioned that Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, and Planted are your sort of go-tos. Is this a song that you'll pick and choose from Wally's Alley? Or do you pass it up? Or what's the deal? It's a thumbs up for me. Because there are a few that I kind of go like, eh. i'll listen i don't think there's anything i skit really ever um and i kind of like that all the albums have like songs that are like making me feel like i'm gonna cry one minute and they're so slow and sad and then the next minute i'm like jumping up and down and screaming something stupid with them um and that one's more in the like mellow um slow sad thing and i'm yeah i'm I'm a sucker for that kind of song. That's good. I think it's pretty. It is pretty. It's got a great melody. Yeah. It's a good solid one. Yeah. I'd put it on a mixtape for somebody. Okay.

Track 3:

[29:00] If I was introducing to them a system pavement. That's the highest compliment you can make to somebody, you know? Like, we get that. We get that because of our era. But it is such a high compliment, right? I'm going to make you a mixtape. I remember I burned somebody a CD once, like a mixtape on a CD. And it just wasn't the same. Just wasn't the same. It isn't. It was so hard because you had to fit them into, you know, the side. and I didn't like leaving too much space. I put little parts of movies and shows and like weird little snippets of people talking. Oh, that's badass. I have gotten compliments many years later from many of my high school friends that I did make really good mixtapes. So I kind of need to borrow them from them because they probably were pretty good. People like send me pictures of the track listing and I'm like, ooh, I forgot about too much of those bands. I'm going to go look them up now. Oh, that's great.

Track 3:

[30:02] Yeah, mixtapes. The children today, they won't know. No, they just really won't. Well, cassettes are starting to come back in a weird way. So maybe they will. Maybe they will. I will say I have a 12-year-old daughter now. And right after we went to see Pavement in 2022, I took a few videos and I was watching a couple on my phone and she came in the room and said, Hey, I know that song. It was Harness Your Hopes. And I was like, I was like, no, you don't. Cause you're 10 and no, you don't. And I don't think I've ever played this around you. And she goes, yeah, I do. And then she like said a couple of lines and I was like, what are you talking about? And then obviously it was TikTok. Yeah. And that blew my mind. And it's made a comeback again. I know. She told me the other day. As we're recording this. She goes, oh, pavement's blowing up on TikTok again. And I'm like, what? Is it the same thing? And she's like, no, it's something with baggy pants and spinning. Yeah. Which she sort of explained to me. Even Mark did it. I saw that. I saw everybody was giving it a little go. Yeah. I'm impressed. Me too. So fun. I kind of love that, though.

Track 3:

[31:20] Well, it makes sense that they would make a comeback. That was a random song, but it's a random song. It's very odd and quirky and funky. And when you look at its numbers on Spotify, it's incredible. Like the number of downloads or streams it has versus the next song. It's mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing. I hope some of the children explore some more pavement because they would have such a grand old time.

Track 3:

[31:58] They are obsessed with the 90s right now, so maybe they will. Yes. I have impressed my child with some of this stuff. Yeah. I think she's even impressed about this. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Well, I've really enjoyed my time with you today. Ditto. Yeah, this has been a lot of fun. It's always good doing this gig right now.

Track 3:

[32:22] The first time around, I was solo. I did every song in the catalog solo.

Track 3:

[32:27] Wow. And that was really tough to do because you're sort of talking to an audience that you don't know if they're even there. Uh this time around with the top 50 it's been so great getting to meet people like i've met you know at this point i've met 30 people or 39 people uh-huh yeah 39 people 39 people 29 people whatever anyway you get the point and where are you in the world i'm in toronto canada oh i've been to toronto a bazillion times oh that's great lots of bands there ah any good venues that you can rhyme off um massey hall massey hall is great yeah that's why i saw pavement twice there oh i think i saw damien rice there okay um i think i saw arcade fire there um that would make sense travis okay from scotland um david gray i had a friend i lived with in england and then she lived in glasgow and then she went back to toronto so i would go see her a lot and we go see a lot of the bands that we loved so i love toronto i would live there in a second i wish i could kind of it was a little bit warmer but um uh it's been a spectacular this year we have we had no snow yeah we had three days of snow like through the whole winter so all right And I'm changing my mind, though.

Track 3:

[33:56] Something awesome. Especially if something happens in November. I said that the last time the creep got in, but...

Track 3:

[34:06] Yeah, well, you know, you guys have your shit to deal with, for sure. We have our shit up here, too. Yeah. Listen, I will let you know when this episode comes out, because as I mentioned, we are recording this deeply in advance, because I'm a bit of a flake. And I want to make sure I've got all these in the can before I flake out. And that's what I'm trying to do. You sound like you're on top of things, man. I'm impressed. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. All right. Be well. Stay swell. And wash your goddamn hands.

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