'Poland is a benchmark for Europe on defence': France's ambassador to Warsaw

Talking Europe

Talking Europe sits down with France's top diplomat in Warsaw, just as Poland takes up the rotating presidency of the EU in turbulent geopolitical times. Étienne de Poncins was previously French ambassador to Ukraine and got out of Kyiv just in time when it was encircled by the Russian army in 2022. He wrote about that experience in his book "Au Cœur de la Guerre" – "At the Heart of the War". We talk about Poland’s position in the EU, and especially its defence commitments, as well as the EU’s approach to Ukraine and to the incoming US presidency of Donald Trump.

De Poncins says it is "good news for Europe" that Poland is taking over the rotating presidency of the EU, because it is going to be "a pro-European presidency, held by Prime Minister Donald Tusk. To be perfectly frank, we will not regret the Hungarian presidency of the EU, because Hungary was playing its own game and not a collective game, as in football. We expect Poland to aggregate all the European positions and to defend a united EU position. And the moment is also important because this is the real start of the new Commission of Mrs. von der Leyen, which will send its first strong messages on its programme. So this first semester of 2025 is clearly a key period."

As Europe braces for the unpredictability of a new Trump presidency in the US, de Poncins praises Poland's goal of spending 4.7 percent of GDP on its defence capabilities in 2025. "Poland is a benchmark for Europe. Their ambition is clear. They want to double their military forces. There are a lot of challenges, because when you buy a lot of military equipment, you then need to do the training, the maintenance and so on. But the road is clear and the objective is firm. And we are very impressed by the determination of the Polish government to rearm and to collectively reinforce the defence of Europe."

Asked whether the EU as a whole is being pro-active enough on the incoming Trump presidency, de Poncins says "there are different meetings about how to handle [US President-Elect Donald] Trump, and about how to discuss with him. There will be a visit to Washington of the French, German and Polish foreign ministers very soon, and we will continue to see a revival of this 'Weimar Triangle'. The important point, I think, is to be coordinated among us Europeans".

De Poncins pushes back on the idea that, by saying that Kyiv needs to hold "realistic" discussions on territorial issues, French President Emmanuel Macron is nudging Ukraine to make territorial concessions. "We have always said that it is for Ukrainians themselves to decide when and on what conditions they will enter into negotiations with Russia," de Poncins says. "Everything will be on the table at that point. So President Macron has not said anything very new from my perspective."

We also touch on hybrid information wars in Europe and de Poncins points out that he himself has been a target of disinformation. "When I was ambassador to Kyiv I suffered an attack on social networks. There was a fake story saying that I had fled my posting and abandoned my position, which was of course not true. This was done on purpose by some services, I would say." He goes on to affirm that, in a year of crucial elections across the EU, this issue "is clearly a concern for everyone now. For several years we have been facing a very difficult hybrid war in all aspects and all domains, including in the domain of information."

Programme prepared by Luke Brown, Isabelle Romero and Perrine Desplats