Your Questions Answered 2

Behind the Scenery

What's the best place to see sunset? What do I do if I get stung by a scorpion? What footwear will help me break Jim Walmsley's R2R2R FKT? You ask - we find the answers together! After google-ing what the most common questions people were asking about Grand Canyon in online searches, rangers Kate, Jeremy, and Brendan do their best to answer them.

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TRANSCRIPT:

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Kate: In this episode, we're exploring all of the different questions visitors ask us here at Grand Canyon National Park.

Brendan: My name is Brendan Oates.

Kate: My name is Kate Hensel.

Brendan: And we have a special guest, Jeremy.

Jeremy: Jeremy Childs here from Interp on the Rim.

Brendan: Yeah. Good to talk to you here, we don't really get to talk to people on the rim that often, so it's good to have you! And we were thinking about it, I think out of all three of us, you've probably answered the most questions if you counted them all up.

Jeremy: Per capita?

Brendan: Yeah, Per Capita.

Jeremy: Yeah- all those shifts working at the VC. Definitely. Yeah, I miss those days, honestly. But yeah, some days we'd have a line out the door all day long from open to close, and so not unusual to do 5 or 6 hundred visitors a day.

Brendan: Wow. And how many questions do you think that would add up to?

Jeremy: Three or four different questions.

*laughing*

Jeremy: Yeah, no it's... It's, you know, first time here, what do we do? And then you go through your spiel. The second most question is where's the glass walkway thing? And then of course, where's the restrooms? Big one too. But literally, I mean. It's whenever someone asks a really good question like I saw this flower and they describe it to you and you're like, thank you. You're my favorite visitor of the day. Because they ask something unique, and it gives you an opportunity to think a little bit. And to expand your repertoire, rather than just your normal spiel like you know the shuttles are free, blah blah blah...

Brendan: Well, Jeremy, we have a bunch of different questions we pulled from a bunch of different sources, usually not as much asking where the bathrooms are, but more of an opinion. And you've probably heard a few of these before. So - Dive right in, Kate?

Kate: Yeah, So the first question is where is the best place to see sunset?

Jeremy: So, this is interesting because we really wanted to get to the bottom of this and so we had Rangers go out to every of the most popular spots; down the Hermit Rd. Down desert view drive, Mather Point, Yavapai Point here in the village, and we had kind of a bracket style, you know, final four type of thing, Sweet 16, where every couple of days. We would put up a new spot and the photograph and then the public, via Facebook or Twitter, would get to vote on which spot was their favorite. And our typical answer over the last few years has been Hopi point. It's the most popular by far, not unusual to get 4 or 5 hundred people out there on a good summer day. But we were thinking maybe there's something else, you know? And so, we use some North Rim spots, Desert view, you know, all over the place. And after all of that. The one that came in first was Hopi point. So, we gave them sixteen options over the course of two weeks, and the public voted, and they still chose Hopi point. So, we can at least say everyone's going to have their own. Obviously, I have my own. It's not Hopi Point, but I'm not going to share my own, because of the -- one of the reasons I love it is because it is secluded. And that's the great thing! You can find those near Hopi Point. You just walk along the rim trail in either direction for 5 minutes and all of the sudden, you're by yourself. And that's the beauty of it. It's really nice. But there's going to be lots of differences, but we tell people now that it has been voted on and decided by the public that Hopi Point is the crowd favorite at least.

Brendan: Yeah, I remember that was, when that was decided once and for all. And but were you part of that bracket? That final Four?

Jeremy: I didn't take any of the photographs, but I was voting for sure, but no, they we had a large amount of seasonals that were here. They arrived in March and literally we had two days of working the visitor center before we shut things down.

Brendan: Oh, man.

Jeremy: They were scrambling for things to do, for projects to do, and that was one of them that they came up with. I thought it was pretty cool.

Brendan: So, the next question is another one you've heard before is how many people visit Grand Canyon per year? I think it depends on the year, especially now...

Jeremy: We had our busiest year ever just two years ago, which was I think 6.38 million visitors. It's a huge number of people. Honestly, that was about what we expected. 2016, we thought it was going to be a big year and it was not quite as big because of the Centennial for the National Parks Service, and then the 2018-2019 season we thought because of our Centennial as a National Park, but it actually ended up going down just slightly from the 6.38 in that year. So, 6.38 million is the most that this park has had, and it has been hovering around 6,000,000 for about a decade now.

Brendan: And would you say we are the most visited National Park? I know, I know that's a tricky question.

Jeremy: So that that, yeah, that depends on who you ask. So, there's a lot of different ways you can look at this. So, Great Smoky Mountain National Park, they get close to 11,000,000 visitors a year. That said, they have a highway that goes through the middle of the park, and it is oftentimes the only way to get from Tennessee to North Carolina and back, and they count every single car that drives down that as like 2.3 visitors or something in their algorithm. So that's how they get to their 11,000,000 visitors per year. Now, how many of those people actually getting out of their vehicles and enjoying the resource? Not sure about that. So Great Smoky Mountain National Park can say they're the most visited National Park. There's also Golden Gate National Park in San Francisco, but they count every single concert, every single boat that comes up to a pier, every single... You know, there's... there's a lot of different ways to look at this, but if you look at people on the ground, boots on the ground, visitors that are enjoying the park in a meaningful and interpretive way, then I would say the Grand Canyon. It's typically about 2 million visitors more than its closest competitor, Yellowstone, Yosemite, Zion. Those places which average between 4 and 4 and a half million visitors a year.

Brendan: So yeah, and I think we see a very specific view, because you're on the South Rim, but in the Canyon, I think we've had also record numbers the last couple of years. I think the saying goes 1% out of all the Grand Canyon visitors visit the Canyon, but we've had a lot of Rim to Rim or Rim to Rim to Rim runners come the last few days.

Kate: Yeah. And we've also been seeing, as the years progress, that our Rim to Rim or Rim to Rim to Rim season are getting longer and longer, so we're seeing more people that way too. In talking about different ways of getting around the Canyon, can I bike at Grand Canyon?

Jeremy: Absolutely. It's a very bikeable park. There's basically about... I'm going to say 8 miles ish on the Hermit Road and that's nice when it's closed to traffic, because it's only accessible via the buses or walking or biking. For the majority of the year, from March 1st to the end of November, it's shuttle bus only on that road. And that means that you can bike it and it's so wonderful. They do ask that you pull off the road if a shuttle bus is coming, but they only come by every 15 or 20 minutes. So, you basically have it all to yourself. It's a really nice, paved road. You're right on the edge of the Canyon. There's lots of opportunities to stop along the way and enjoy the views. Uh, But it's safe. It's family fun. Uh, we do have the Bright Angel bicycle shop here in the park and they do a lot of tours where they will take you out in a van and they have guides that can tell you that some of the history about what you're looking at, but it it's a, it's a historic road that dates back to the early 20th century and it's since been improved several times. Wonderful ride. There's also a Greenway system that runs throughout the park. So, if you wanted to, you could bike just about the entire village area without ever having to touch a road. And that's important to us because the drivers here, they have vacation brain, they're oftentimes distracted by animals and pretty views. And so, they're not looking at the bicycles that might be on the road with them. So, we've offered a wonderful alternative to riding on the roads with all the greenways that we have here. And you received the map at the front entrance station and all the green dotted lines, those are bicycle friendly greenways. All the black dotted lines, those are pedestrian only, the solid black lines are roads, so we encourage you to take the greenways or one of the roads that are close to personal vehicles.

Kate: Yeah, switching over to the other Rim, so over on the North Rim here you can bike the Bridle Path, which takes you from the Backcountry Office area down to the visitor center. So that's a great way, if the parking lots are really full, and you can park somewhere else and then get down to the rim views near the visitor center that way. And we also have the Arizona Trail that comes through Grand Canyon, so you can bike up to the rim on the Arizona Trail. But once you get to the Canyon edge, you have to carry your bike across the Canyon, and you just told me, Brendan, that you saw some people carrying their bikes this past week.

Brendan: Yeah. No, I actually saw a guy about an hour ago carrying his bike. He started at the border between Mexico and Arizona about 18 days ago, and he was having a good time till it started snowing because he had a lot of snow in the past two days. So, he looked kind of sad because I told him there's a foot and a half of snow on the North Rim, and he has to go up through there. Yeah. But yeah, you have to carry your bike and people do it every year. Rim to Rim with a 30-pound bike and all their stuff. And we have had a few folks who missed the signs this year and ended up biking all the way down to the river. And then they were told they had to haul their bike all the way back up, so...

Jeremy: Yeah, and that's an important point to make for all wilderness areas. And it's not just Grand Canyon, but any place you see a wilderness designation in a federal land, that means that no bicycles, no motorized vehicles are allowed anywhere in those. And so, if you are riding your bike through an area, you will have to carry it through the wilderness area, so as to leave less impact on the territory.

Kate: Could I bring my dog, cat, or iguana to Grand Canyon?

Brendan: Were you there for the iguana at the visitor center a while ago?

Jeremy: Yes. Yeah. I've also seen potbelly pigs. Someone had a parrot on their shoulder not long ago. So, yeah.

Brendan: Oh, I remember that one yeah.

Jeremy: Long story short, most pets are welcome at Grand Canyon. You have to have them on a leash, and I believe the leash cannot be any longer than six feet. There are rules in place, but anywhere on the on the rim of the Canyon is typically appropriate in an outdoor setting, every building has a little different rules as to whether they allow pets inside. That said, just like bicycles, pets are not allowed below the rim of the Canyon, so you're welcome to bring your dogs on the greenways and some of the rim trail absolutely welcome on that. But pets of all kinds are not allowed on Inner Canyon trails.

Brendan: Yeah, with the exception being services, specifically service animals or livestock.

Jeremy: Right. And so yes, if you if you have a horse or a mule that you feel is capable of handling the terrain at Grand Canyon, then, yeah, absolutely. Go for it. Are there any special permits that are required if you're going to bring pack animals in?

Brendan: Uh, so Kate Hensel and I got to do a walk with a bunch of mini donkeys a few weeks ago... it was pretty awesome. I had a donkey named Winky.

Kate: My donkey was Pearl.

Brendan: Yeah. And with... there are certain things. If you're going backpacking with your animal, just like anywhere, you need to get a Backcountry permit from the back country office. But if you're doing a day hike with your donkey or horse, you those are...or mule, you can't. Those are the big three. You can't take goats and you can't take llamas, which are used in other parks. Just let people know because there's also mules and lot of traffic, but you don't need a permit. But it is good to get informed before you bring an animal down into the Canyon cause it's pretty rough in a lot of ways.

Jeremy: It is. Now, If you're going to stay in the corridor, there are special campsites for pack animals, right? That will provide a corral type of environment.

Brendan: Yeah, the stock sites are available.

Jeremy: Great.

Kate: And we have a stock site at Phantom Ranch as well as at Cottonwood.

Jeremy: and we also have them up here on the rim at the campground here. So, you could plan a whole trip around it. Pretty cool.

Brendan: Do you want to the next one, Jeremy? Or anyone... pick whatever you want.

Jeremy: What best footwear...? What is the best footwear for doing a Rim to Rim? Well, I've done a few of them and again that's a matter of personal taste. I've seen a guy do it in flip flops, house slippers, chacos, you know, stuff like that. I would never do that. My feet would get torn up I think doing that kind of thing. Plus, there's a lot of ankle twisters, a lot of opportunities to twist your ankle. And uh, that's no good. So um, the first time I hiked I wore boots with kind of a taller ankle support system in place. They're a little heavier, they're all Gore-tex, and you know, waterproof and everything you know. And that was a mistake for me. Now other people you maybe you have weak ankles. Maybe you have ankle injuries in the past and you need that, for support then I support your decision to do that. For me now I use a trail runner. I don't care if it's waterproof, I'd prefer that it be breathable because 99% of the time you're going to be hiking in a very dry, arid situation. If it's anywhere between March and October, it's going to be hot, hot, hot in the Canyon. So, you want breathable material, lightweight, flexible type of stuff. So that's what I go for now. That's my ideal rim to rim footwear, but again it's personal preference and I support anyone wearing anything they feel safe in doing it. That's the key-- is uh, honestly, a lot of the time when we do search and rescue operations, when we have to extract someone from the Canyon, inappropriate footwear has been an issue in those rescues, so.

Brendan: Yeah, I would say at least in my experience like it is more often big, heavy boots. I would say which end up being a search and rescue or a trail response or a hiker assist. I have seen a lady in high heels, and she did river and back and she was totally fine. I think that's the exception. I don't recommend that, but it is interesting how all the different footwear you do see down here, and I think in my experience I've seen so many different shoes. I'd memorized the tread of a lot of them, but you know.

Jeremy: Right.

Brendan: Maybe that's just says more about my background than anything. Yeah, what about you, Kate?

Kate: I also really like to wear trail runners for their lightness and breathability. They're also nice for doing the corridor trails at Grand Canyon, because it is really nice to be able to just, like, jump into like a Creek to get cool. And that's like the easiest way to stay cool at Grand Canyon is to just get your body wet. It's nice not having to worry about soaking your shoes because you'll know they'll be drying in like half an hour to an hour.

Brendan: Yeah, but today the entire top part of South Kaibab is completely iced over. So, keep that in mind too.

Kate: Yeah, I mean, I normally wear trail runners, but I'm going to wear my nice waterproof leather boots hiking in today.

Jeremy: With traction devices, yeah.

Kate: With traction devices, Yep, you know, wear micro spikes.

Jeremy: Yep, and that's important to remember too. If you are going to be here in the wintertime, chances are even if it hasn't snowed in a week or two, the tops of the trails like Kaibab and bright Angel, they... that ice will stay there for months. And it will be the more it gets compacted down by humans and mules walking on it, it's almost like a Zamboni drives down at every single night because it gets, like, re-iced from the melt from the top. It kind of slicks over, and then the next morning, it's like, really super slick. So, traction devices are really absolutely necessary for going to be here in the wintertime any time after the first snow. Which we just had a couple of days ago.

Kate: I'm a big fan of trekking poles too? Trekking poles.

Brendan: Yes.

Jeremy: Better to have four legs than two. Yeah, absolutely.

Brendan: You're the only thing with two legs down there. Everything else is four, I guess... and birds... whatever. All right, so what is the best trail in Grand Canyon?

Kate: So hard to answer... Of the corridor trails, I think the South Kaibab is my favorite. It's just super pretty. That said, it's like really brutal to be on it for most of the summer. So, you really need to plan what time of day you're hiking and how fast you can hike on that trail. But I really like that trail. Going off corridor, I really like... Like underneath Thunder River area on the Escalante, a layer that's a really pretty trail.

Brendan: Yeah, I would say mine is the Tanner Trail. It was the 1st trail I hiked in Grand Canyon, which is... which shouldn't be your first trail in Grand Canyon. And I got absolutely wrecked and the last mile through the Coconino sandstone, I was taking naps at every end of the switch back switch back so. It definitely impacted me, and it was definitely the hardest I've ever done, but it is a beautiful trail. I have a lot of memories on it.

Jeremy: It is I... Like Kate was saying, it depends on the time of year, and it depends on the time of day you know and it also depends if you're going down or coming up. That has a big effect on which one you should choose as well. Some are longer, which means they're not going to be as steep. But I really like the hermit area that whole the Hermit basin is just amazing. There's several different trails. Uh, the Silver Bell Trail, which is a really, really old trail. If you could connect that down to dripping spring and then come out the hermit area, to hermit's rest. That's one of my favorite day hikes to do down there, but just getting all the way down there to the other spring, Santa Maria Springs and then the, The cathedral stairs. I mean lot of really cool stuff in there. There's a reason that they had a camp at that place for decades because it is so beautiful down there and it's not grueling, it's challenging just enough, but they have rip rap paving on a lot of the trail, so you don't have to worry about twisting your ankle too much. You do get your trekking pole stuck in, between those which I hate but.

Brendan: Ohh man.

Jeremy: But it's still better than getting your leg twisted up in that so, but yeah, the Hermit area is I just love that, that area. That's one of my favorites. And there's very few people. It's kind of off the beaten path that even as accessible it as is you won't see, but a fraction of the visitors out there.

Brendan: Nice. Yeah, and on the other side of it, is there a trail that either of you do not like.

Kate: Beamer.

Brendan: Beamer, oh why?

Kate: It's just you're hiking, and you don't get a lot of different views for most of the length of it, and it's like that weird angle where your ankle is always like, just tilted a little bit and you're just doing that for miles, so.

Jeremy: I have the same complaint. When you go down Grandview, you go down about a mile and a half to two miles. You hit the saddle. That's gorgeous. It's a challenging trail. It's super cool. You're kind of in awe that they used to take little Burrows down there all the time and pull copper mining ore out of there, but then you get to that area between Horseshoe Mesa and the saddle. It's just that straight right off the side and it's it is just slightly slanted and so, you're kind of doing this number the whole-time walking, you know, kind of cocky. And there's not a whole lot of interesting things to look at because you're kind of in a side Canyon and it it's just, yeah, there's no shade at all. And so, yeah, summertime, that's definitely my least favorite couple of miles in the Canyon in this area, at least.

Brendan: I would agree with Grandview because I feel like I always almost get hit in the head by a rock every time I'm there.

Jeremy: There's that too.

Brendan: Yeah, it’s just like clockwork, hit a certain section of the trail. And you hear the sounds of the rocks bouncing, and you're like, oh man, I should just wear a helmet next time I hike that trail. I get, I get this one asked a lot, usually by visitors, and it is what is there to do at Grand Canyon at night? I think what they mean by this is like what do I do like after work? Like what's like, the Grand Canyon nightlife? And I don't think there really is any.

Jeremy: Again, it depends on where you are. But yeah, normally there's a couple of pubs. There's some live music that happens at the Bright Angel Lodge. Sometimes, Rough Riders on the North Rim is a cool place to hang out and kind of you meet the local, you know, mixed in a little bit with the people that are traveling from all over the world. So, it’s - Grand Canyon is kind of like being at an airport.

*laughing*

Jeremy: You know, it really is because you, you get to meet people, you know, 40% of our visitors from foreign countries and that's amazing. You know, you hear dozens of different languages every single day. And there are things to do, you know, the. Bright Angel Tavern, El Tovar, Yavapai Lodge, the Yav Tav. You know that's a great place to go and meet people from all over the world and you share your stories about your hike you did and how tired you are, and you get to laugh at people that are doing the Kaibab shuffle. You know you can, those are the ones that just came out of from Phantom.

*laughing*

There is stuff to do here normally, but even without the social aspect, there are things to do. You can take a drive down Desert View and find a quiet spot and watch the Milky Way come alive, watch the shooting stars, watch the full moon, come up over Shiva temple and stuff like that, you know. So, there's lots to do here at night that doesn't involve a lot of socializing.

Brendan: I think a lot of people have Vegas on the brain when they come out here because Vegas is a pretty major airport to us, yeah.

Jeremy: Absolutely. Absolutely yes.

Brendan: And I would agree most of my evenings are looking at stars or looking at bats. And yeah, not traditional nightlife stuff.

Jeremy: Looking for scorpions with the black light.

Kate: Oh yeah, yeah.

Brendan: Speaking of Scorpions, how many people get stung by Scorpions, and what do I do if I get stung by one? I don't know if you get this question in time, but we get this everyday

Kate: “Is this a scorp sting?”

Jeremy: Yeah, we don't have the scorpions on the on the rim so much so.

Kate: Yeah, we get asked about them pretty often at Phantom Ranch. Because there's a lot of places there that will hang out. I mean in, the Canyon in general. And it's fun. After programs down there, we'll go out with a black light and look at, like the good, sweet spots for finding scorps, and we'll get a lot of questions then about like, what does it feel like to be sung by a bark scorpion, which I've never been stung, but I've heard it described as having, like, a feeling of TV static, just like going up your arm from where you were bit or your foot or wherever. But generally, it's not too dangerous to be stung by a scorpion. It'll be a little unpleasant, a bit painful, but otherwise you don't have to worry too much about it being a life threat. With a few exceptions of really young kids that can get pretty serious quickly, but you probably know more about that.

Brendan: Yeah, with young kids, it's scary. We're hear a few people say they're allergic to scorpion stings, and there's, like, not a ton of research about if you're and you can have anaphylaxis through scorpion stings. But kids will do this weird thing if they get stung by, like, foam at the mouth and stuff, and that's really freaky. But the only danger is if you were very, very young, old, or you know, have an immune deficiency where the scorpion sting can be very serious. That being said, our volunteer down at Phantom, Sjors, said you have about 1 in 1000 percent of 1 one in 1000 chance to being stung by a scorpion, because you have about one sting per week, and there's roughly 1000 people who stay at Phantom between the campground, the staff, and the ranch. But I would say if you get stung, Sjors has told me to cowboy up, or cry and feel bad for yourself. So, you can, you know, go either direction. Really.

Jeremy: And, and both.

Brendan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not mutually exclusive. Yeah.

Jeremy: No, they're not. Kate:

Brendan, what's your favorite snack food to have in the Canyon?

Brendan: Well, I don't have access to restaurants, and I've eaten some pretty disgusting things over my years. I would say the classic is mixing ramen noodles with instant mashed potatoes, which is referred to as a ramen bomb in many places. And yeah, I would say I also don't typically carry a stove in the Canyon. I would cold soak it in like a jar of sorts like a peanut butter jar with a lid. And I think I've horrified several people eating this weird combination of foods, but it has a lot of salt, which is very important in the Canyon and also a lot of calories.

Jeremy: Salt and carbs.

Brendan: Yeah. I would not say that's a good long term nutritional plan, but that's what I eat a lot.

Kate: Yeah, I actually do like to carry a stove because I really like having tea when I'm backpacking in the morning, it's just super awesome to be able to like, sit on an edge overlooking the Canyon and just drink some tea. But generally, for just eating, ramen's really handy to just like have emergency packs of in your bag, once again for that salt. And though it's super tricky to eat in the Canyon I do often go through the struggle of bringing chocolate down in the Canyon and eating it and having it melt everywhere.

Brendan: That's high risk, yeah.

Kate: It is but, high reward.

Brendan: Well, you're now officially in like chocolate bar season where it's not 115 all the time. My Snickers bar froze today, so if that makes you feel better on your hike down.

Jeremy: I like jellybeans. That's my sugar fix. When I'm on the trails that that works real well because they don't, they don't typically melt, but they might stick together a little bit, flavor combination.

Brendan: I know one Ranger where she has a like a pocket where she just loosely stuffs jellybeans and Skittles, and I think she has the caffeinated kind, so she's the fastest hiker I know of in the Canyon.

Jeremy: Yep, plus it kind of keeps your mouth moist.

Brendan: Oh, yeah.

Jeremy: You know, if you have something kind of suck on like that. So even when it's super-duper hot, it's oddly soothing to have something like that so.

Brendan: I haven't hiked with jellybeans, but I'll have to try it.

Jeremy: I like the sour ones.

Brendan: Ooh. Alright. Well, Jeremy, thank you so much for helping us out and answering a lot of questions.

Jeremy: Absolutely. I had fun.

Brendan: Yeah. And Kate, if people wanted to ask questions, what's the best way?

Kate: When the visitor center is open, that's a great place to come talk to us. Down in the Canyon, we have contact stations, so that's great. And you can also reach out to us on Facebook and our other social media accounts. And then you can also call the park for general questions.

Jesse: Behind the Scenery is brought to you by the interpretation team at Grand Canyon National Park. We gratefully acknowledge the Nativ People’s on whose ancestral homelands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant Native communities who make their home here today.

Brendan: Hello, I just hiked out of the Grand Canyon, and I smell bad.