Geoff White on Rinsed - Money Laundering in a Digital World

The Human Risk Podcast

How is technology impacting money laundering? On this episode, I'm welcoming investigative journalist Geoff White back onto the show.
In 2022, Geoff joined me to talk about his book and podcast The Lazarus Heist, the story of how North Korean hackers launched an attack on Sony Pictures in 2014.
This time, he's back to talk about his brand new book 'Rinsed' which looks at money laundering in a digital world.
In it, Geoff explores how thieves who steal digital money that’s highly traceable, launder it so that they can make use of it?
In a wide-ranging disucssion, we also talk about Geoff’s work as an investigative reporter — how does he get his information, what are the risks in doing what he does and you’ll hear the astonishing reasons why people you might not expect would want to talk to him, actually do.

Links
Hear Geoff's previous appearance on the show talking aboiut The Lazarus Heist:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/geoff-white-on-the-lazarus-heist/
His BBC World podcast of the same name - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads
Learn more about his new book 'Rinsed' - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455031/rinsed-by-white-geoff/9780241624838
Geoff's website - https://geoffwhite.tech/

Timestamped Notes (generateed by AI)
[00:00:00] - Introduction

• Christian welcomes Geoff White back to the podcast.
• Geoff's new book "Rinsed" and updates since his last appearance.

[00:01:00] - North Korea's Cyber Activities

• Discussion on North Korea's cyber operations and the Axie Infinity hack.
• The scale and speed of the $625 million cryptocurrency theft.

[00:02:00] - Money Laundering Techniques

• The importance of money laundering in cybercrime.
• How hackers collaborate with financial experts to launder money.

[00:03:00] - Evolution of Money Laundering

• The shift from traditional cash-based laundering to digital methods.
• Examples of how different criminal groups use technology to launder money.

[00:04:00] - Money Laundering as a Service

• The concept of "Money Laundering as a Service."
• Comparison with "Hacking as a Service."

[00:05:00] - Classic Money Laundering Stages

• Explanation of the three stages: placement, layering, and integration.
• Historical context with examples from the 1980s.

[00:09:00] - Digital Era of Money Laundering

• Challenges of tracing digital money.
• The global nature of digital money laundering and its implications.

[00:10:00] - International and Technological Aspects

• How criminals use technology to launder money across borders.
• The role of cryptocurrency in modern money laundering.

[00:13:00] - Role of Financial Institutions

• The involvement of traditional financial institutions in money laundering.
• How compliance teams can combat these activities.

[00:14:00] - Investigating Money Laundering

• Geoff's research methods and challenges in uncovering these stories.
• The importance of firsthand accounts and digital breadcrumbs.

[00:17:00] - Notable Cases

• Key cases from Geoff's book, including the Axie Infinity hack and others.
• The significance of technology in these crimes.

[00:20:00] - Interaction with Law Enforcement

• Experiences with law enforcement agencies during investigations.
• The case of the Instagram influencer Hushpuppi.

[00:23:00] - Personal Safety and Cyber Risk

• Geoff's approach to managing personal cyber risk.
• The importance of separating public and private online personas.

[00:26:00] - The WannaCry Ransomware Attack

• Challenges in tracing ransomware payments.
• A specific investigation into the WannaCry attack.

[00:28:00] - Future of Cyber Risk

• Geoff's views on the future of cyber risk and AI.
• The potential for AI to assist both criminals and investigators.

[00:34:00] - Regulation and Technology

• The need for proactive regulation in tech and finance.
• Challenges faced by regulators in keeping up with rapid technological advancements.

[00:40:00] - Title and Cover of the Book

• The process behind choosing the book's title, "Rinsed."
• Importance of a compelling cover and subtitle.

[00:42:00] - Continuous Learning in Cybercrime

• The evolving nature of cybercrime stories.
• The impact of new developments on the book's content.

[00:46:00] - Tech Enablers and Libertarian Views

• Common traits among tech enablers in money laundering.
• The vision of a new world driven by innovative financial technologies.

[00:51:00] - Advice for Regulators

• Geoff's perspective on how regulators can keep pace with technological change.
• The balance between enabling innovation and preventing crime.

[00:55:00] - Conclusion

• Geoff's final thoughts and a reminder about his book "Rinsed."
• Encouragement to support local bookstores through Bookshop.org.