Ashley Goodall on The Problem with Change: And the Essential Nature of Human Performance

The Burleson Box: A Podcast from Dustin Burleson, DDS, MBA

In this insightful episode, Dustin Burleson interviews Ashley Goodall, author of The Problem with Change and co-author of Nine Lies About Work. They explore the pitfalls of constant organizational change and its negative impact on human performance, uncovering practical strategies to create stability and empower teams. Ashley draws from decades of experience at Cisco and Deloitte to offer a fresh perspective on leadership, team culture, and performance management.

Ashley doesn’t hold back as he explains how organizations often confuse improvement with change, assuming that one naturally leads to the other. He points out how relentless transformations—whether they’re mergers, reorgs, or new systems—disrupt employees’ sense of certainty, control, and belonging. These disruptions can leave people feeling untethered, like they’re just waiting for the next upheaval to arrive. It’s no wonder, he notes, that employees often roll their eyes when leaders announce, “We’re so excited about this new change!”

Dustin then steers the conversation toward solutions, exploring why teams—not companies—are the real heart of an organization. Ashley explains that while it’s easy to talk about “company culture,” the truth is, culture happens on a much smaller scale. It’s in the teams where people feel connected, supported, and motivated—or not. He makes a compelling case for investing in team leaders, those unsung heroes who create environments where employees can do their best work.

The two also dig into Ashley’s innovative approach to performance management, which he implemented at Deloitte and Cisco. Instead of the usual annual reviews that focus on ratings and past performance, Ashley championed a weekly check-in system. This simple yet powerful shift helps employees get the guidance and support they need in real time, not six months too late. Dustin marvels at how such a small change can have such a big impact, strengthening engagement, performance, and trust within teams.

Toward the end, the discussion takes a broader view. Ashley emphasizes the importance of giving employees “running room”—a term borrowed from Bob Woodward—that speaks to the space and trust leaders can provide. It’s not about micromanaging or constant prodding; it’s about creating an environment where employees feel empowered to do their best work. For Ashley, this starts with treating employees as human beings, not just numbers on a spreadsheet. Dustin wholeheartedly agrees, sharing how these insights can help leaders rethink their approach to change and performance in their own organizations.

Practical Takeaways:

• Rethink the frequency and necessity of organizational change initiatives.
• Prioritize team-level culture and equip leaders to create supportive environments.
• Adopt weekly "check-ins" as a transformative tool for performance management.
• Evaluate change initiatives for their balance of pros and cons to avoid unnecessary disruption.

Links:

• Learn more about Ashley Goodall
• Get your copy of The Problem with Change
• Get your copy of Nine Lies About Work

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